Welcome back to another episode of The More Love Podcast. Today we have another special guest, everyone's a special guests that I'm really delighted to be talking to Mari Perron. Today, she is the wonderful woman who brought through A Course Of Love to us and to everyone. And, honestly, and truly that writing that you have been able to share in physical form has changed my life. So it's a wonderful, wonderful. I just can't quite believe it. But thank you for joining me on the More Love Podcast. I'm very happy to be here. Thank you. So just before I hit record, we had started to talk about how when we start to receive thoughts, we didn't think, and maybe we hear a voice, or maybe we see I truly believe it can be different for everyone. Sure, that it can be quite unfamiliar. And my listeners know that has become one of the purposes of this podcast, too. I often use the term NOTE, which was introduced to me by one of my really early podcast guests. And it stands for NOTE is a acronym, it stands for non ordinary transcendent experience, which can be everything from the way you've received A Course Of Love to a near death experience to falling in love to intuition, or a deja vu or just knowing who's ringing before you pick up the phone. And so it's it's a really beautiful way of saying these experiences are actually quite normal. In terms of the human experience, these NOTE experiences are a normal part of being human. And I just thought that might be a really beautiful place to start the this conversation and then we have a few other questions afterwards.
Sure, yeah, I think that's a wonderful way to look at it. And I believe that one of the things we're talking about with the new as A Course Of Love, you know, has this heading for this new thing. It's like, it's a very, like evolutionary revolutionary kind of movement that we're in. And we're here to create the new. So, but I what I feel is happening is connections, you know, there's so much about relationship and union, and of course of love, and the connections that people begin to feel with each other, that are extraordinary, you know, they're more than just a hunch, or, you know, you have the same idea the same time, it's something that's like, multi dimensional, almost, you know, that we're, we're, we're finding ourselves to be connected on such a greater level. And having to get used to that. And to welcome Mary, who I also hear from now, whether Mary calls it up now, I'm going to have it go out of my mind what I was going to say. Did that happens to me a lot? So Well, I'll let you know that in advance. I have these flashing in and out things. I think that's a part of this time, too. And the coming of the new that. You know, our consciousness, isn't moving in a straight line anymore? You know,
I definitely experienced those gaps in thought a lot, especially when I'm trying to explain the new to someone who's willing to receive it. But we don't quite share the same language yet. I have I found that as I've, as I move more and more to live in the new the way I use language has changed.
Yeah. Isn't it true? And it's hard to take that one word like learning, it's so hard to take that out of your vocabulary, you know? Sometimes, yeah.
Then find a suitable replacement to mean what you actually mean. Yeah, yeah. So one of my listeners has wanted to ask you as a child, if you were aware of relationship as expressed in A Course Of Love, which is what you were just talking about that relationship with a part of us that's more than our physical ness as a child, or whether you sort of started by questioning the, you know, the duality of of the physical experience, you know, the good and evil, heaven and hell. So, would you speak to us about that? Would you share?
Yes, I would love to I actually brought visual aids because you alerted me of this question. And it's going to help me share my story. So I don't know if you've how well you can see this. Oh, but that little red head is me. I'm gonna go early redheaded girl. You had
curly hair. But you still do. But it was shows that the ringlets
beautiful ringlets.And the reason I share that, you know, you could maybe see from the family photo that we were fairly well spaced, I had my two brothers were 10 and 12 years older, my sister was five years older, and I didn't have a younger brother until I was eight. So I had this what I think of as this glorious time. With me, my mom didn't drive, this was the 1950s, you know, when I was a little girl, and so she would just potter around the house. And it's a little bit of that in the, in Mirari. Little bit of that, but what I found, I had in abundance was wonder, you know, and I also even as a child, like being alone, so I invented worlds, and I think that what we can do as a child, and what we can continue to do, really, is to see the world through the eyes of wonder. And it becomes so much more in that way. That was my, I think, in a sense, it was part of my just a big part of my life, and that I was always sort of very comfortable being by myself, you know, so I would go out in the yard by myself and, and just be enthralled by nature, I would build tents, I would, you know, that kind of thing. But then, after my brother was born, I was kind of forgotten. And that was very hard on me. And so that was like the switch for me between a sense of belovedness you know, and then I was sort of forgotten. And, and that affected my life, as well. And I think that we all at some point fall out of love, that sense of being the beloved. And that kind of is the start of what we might call the separation. You know, that's very big in A Course Of Love - the separation. And it's and so we're always looking for a way back after that. So I, what was the question? um, duality, that would be kind of a way of duality is that kinds of worlds that we can experience and the depth of them. And the but I think it's really that kind of time of separation that was lucky that in me, it didn't come into us eight years old, really, you know, and that that memory is in us. And there's a big part of my work now is with memory. And the idea that we have memories that we can't recall our fullness of ourselves. And so we begin to work our way back to our memory of who we are. And I think that's a beautiful idea. Memory is so like a quiet room. It's a gentle, like we're not striving for anything, which is kind of setting the conditions in which our memory can rise and tell us more things about the fullness.
I find that the acceptance that's discussed in the 40 days and 40 nights in A Course Of Love for the listeners, and the end of the combined volume, there's 40 days and 40 nights. But it's actually 40 days, I'm adding the 40 nights. Out of my ..... religious schooling, anyway, there is the time when it comes to needing to accept your whole self. the truest form of your being, and without being able to remember. It's, I found it quite challenging at times, and other times absolutely natural.
Yeah, well take a look to all of you reading A Course Of Love , at the word memory within it. Because I didn't even realize myself until I received Memoria, how, or Mirari how big memory was in A Course Of Love . And it's really beautiful. It I love it that I discovered know things about it even now. And that. And the 40 days is really such a culmination of everything, it's where we're really done with learning, which is very difficult for some people, very exciting. Once you, you begin to feel it slip, you know that you're not. And I see it, it's not like you're not always exploring, and discovering and all of that. But you don't need an authority. And in fact, the authorities become pretty difficult that a certain point where the people who want to say this is the answer, this is the way this is the meaning we must all agree on this. And that's really kind of what learning was, was everybody coming into agreement about what something would mean? And then it got rigid, you know, so we have left that rigidness of learning that pieces very gone,
I just realized, for the listeners that I was so enthusiastic on starting the recording and conversation with you that I didn't actually give the listeners a proper understanding of how many books you've written, or received. So there's the beautiful Grace Trilogies that I actually haven't read, I came along with the Course of Love point, and the way of that or Mirari the way of the Marys another beautiful book that follows on from A Course Of Love . And I think that there's more that I don't know about as well and more coming as well, which is really exciting. Yes,
um, let's see to you missed Creation of The New which was, came from a mystical experience. That one and The Given Self are only out right now and as ebooks, but they are available. And the one coming is will be called.There's two coming.... it's memoria. This, you will find if you begin to enter this wonderful experience of love and discovery, and just really being in touch with something greater that it has. It does funny things to your memory. Yes, I've found that for sure. Yes. And of A Course Of Love first came out over 20 years ago. So this is you know that I have these number of books is a result of a couple of decades.
I know which, in a way blows my mind. Because to me A Course Of Love still seems brand new. Yeah. So it's like you've produced all these books in next to no time at all. Yeah, well, that's great. Yes, thank you very much for making these wonderful pieces of work available. Another of my listeners has asked if you would discuss what it's like becoming the elevated self of form?
Hmm. That's interesting question. And one of the things that always sort of bothered me about that the elevated self of form was elevated, you know, it's like, I don't know, if I think maybe younger people won't to experience this as much. But there was, at this time, that, A Course Of Love was coming out, you know, people would proclaim themselves to be enlightened, or something like that, you know, it was just sort of people would give themselves sort of spiritual status, you know, and, and I thought, elevate, it just had that ring to it a little bit, yes, I was never really fond of it. But what it really is tied to is what we've already talked about, with the end of learning. That's really what it's tied to, it's becoming the self that that isn't looking for that outside authority, that is looking for the inside authority that we have. And that is, I think, what gives rise to that feeling of elevated when we find the inner authority that lifts and begins to, there's a wonderful way Jesus talks about informing to it sounds like such a blah word, but he's talking about it in a new way, that we are informing that we are being informed with being you know, with soul, the Spirit. And some of these things are. I don't like to think of them as heightened states, I think I, I see them as natural states, that a truly natural way that is far greater than what we have access to. And it's often a result of learning. We, our reality is described to us, and who we are as described to us, you know, as children, and how we're supposed to act and why and, you know, you get labeled the sensitive one or the outgoing one. And these things stick with us through our lives. And then at some point, we are adults, and we don't really fit in our bodies and in our roles and in our you know what? And who people think we are. And I think that's often what starts people on what the quest that they begin with, by whatever name to really, it's not only about God, it's about us, it's about that connection, the union in relationship, kind of like that, knowing that we're more than this, and wanting to tap into that, too. We already sense, you know, but you want more than the sense? Yeah.
Absolutely. Yeah. I quite like the word informing To me, it's, it, it reminds me about as within so without, it's like that forming of our physical experience in the way that it was always intended to be as true. So from our true state of being. And so in my, when I sort of visualize it, it's like, this inner light radiating out through every cell of my body to inform, make, make, make it not make it form, gosh, is so tricky, but to have have it expressed through the physical experience, the true nature of
Yes, which is basically in more spiritual or religious terms, incarnation, and know matter. mean, that's what we're talking about. incarnating in the flesh, that's what incarnate is, you know, it carnal. It's, we're in the flesh. But we're also embodying the greater truth of who we are, and that it's in union and relationship. You know, it's like it's not separate from us. And that's the wonderful thing that I think when people start to feel inspired and the way that your friend you know, who wrote a prayer became inspired, you know, it's that there's like ahh, something you can't deny. I think that's that's how I would describe it most is I think if I probably if I could have denied A Course Of Love , I might have, you know, it. It was a little scary a new Course in Miracles. You know, I mean, oh my God. But it's undeniable that that would be a really good way to put it.Yeah,
I really love how Glenn Hovemann captured that sort of order and shock that you experienced by putting in the introduction at the beginning of the combined volume. I remember reading that must have been after I'd read A Course Of Love because it was I'd read it as a single book. Yes, yeah. So for the listeners who don't know this book, A Course Of Love now as we refer to it typically means the combined volume, which has three is it three books or four in one
three? really caught my addendums and stuff... I know I was gonna write raise it to show on getting I'm on a podcast, because I can see you. Yeah, lovely.
lost my train of thought. Anyway. So the the person who has published this, Glenn Hovemann, who wrote this beautiful introduction, that really I felt captured some of your experience of transitioning from A Course in Miracles to actually receiving A Course Of Love , which is what you just referred to in terms of a new Course in Miracles. And the link between for the listeners for the benefit of the listeners who don't know, the link between A Course in Miracles and A Course Of Love is made very explicit at the beginning of A Course Of Love .
And what he wrote is the foreword. Sorry, no, that's okay. Just Yeah, it's the foreword. So and I only say that, because the introduction came later, but one that I wrote with Jesus, and and it's about really about tender people, again, we're, you know, he keeps coming, kind of circles back to those of us who aren't so intellectual, you know, so it's, it was a real good lead in to be working with Mary now on the feminine, because the feminine ways of knowing which are so much more sensory, of emotion of feeling, were really discounted in the time of learning. And so we get to bring, not only to, you know, have these experiences that are enriching to our whole lives, and, and to everybody that we know, but also to kind of begin to bring this to bring to unify, begin to unify the masculine and the feminine. And it really, as my work goes on, looks as if it is a key to our wholeness, that we are able to unite the masculine and feminine within, you know, like, no less important than, you know, body and soul or, you know, mind and spirit, it's everything is, is moving toward union now, it's like this great wave is just bringing us into union. And this is a particular one, we're living in the world right now, the masculine and feminine is, and I think also, you know, care of, care of the poor, and, you know, minorities, it's like, there's this whole power structure that isn't that different than when Jesus was on earth. And there wasn't people crucified other people, you know, so I think all this unification is toward a greater experience of Earth, as well as heaven and eventually a unity that we can feel between the realms. And there will also be a book on the imaginal. So that's kind of the third book of Mary will be on that imaginal realm where this begins to come together. And that's always been available and there's like, that flow that happens.
I had one of my cousin's when she little one, three and four would, would tell me how the fairies would come and visit her at night and lift her up and take her into fairy places. This little cousin of mine is actually a quite a little person in, especially in relation to her family. And so I kept talking to her about the fairies, and what, what they got up to at night just because I knew that her family would tell her she was crazy. To me, the imaginal realm holds endless possibilities, and absolutely didn't at all seem ridiculous to me that the fairies might come and talk to her at night.
All right, and that's my interest now in memory too, because it lives in us, you know, you can have whole scenes be so vivid. And I think that is like the key to maybe beginning to imagine what the imaginal realm is like, because this, you know, there's a way that memories live in us. And there's a way that we have memory, that's of the future as well. And so, it's going to be a fascinating exploration. And who doesn't love that? You know, I mean, that's, that's humanity, I think if we return to something other than, you know, the, the world is, is changing in so many ways. And one of the ways I just was learning was the, like, 30 35% reduction in liberal arts colleges, because everyone wants to learn to have a good job that will pay them a lot of money. You know, it's like, so these schools that that taught like, the the whole like, realm, you used to imagine a college education being, you know, are having to close their doors. And so, you know, what happens when we only begin to learn for making money, you know, for a specialty, and there's just so much at stake right now, to, you know, the end to save the arts, and, you know, all of that. So, I think it's all combined. For a really good reason, I think we're, there's good, very good things coming out now that are going to guide us better than the learning has. Yeah, we
can see a move to love happening all around us. Yes. I even just like to see it in people's language. People who, who, family members even who would never have said, I love to see, I'd love to see you or I love you, or expressing joy and seeing something amazing given to me that language is new to them, that it's a shift, it represents the shift of the the planet should we say,
Yeah, maybe. And this COVID thing that ever went, it's been, you know, since polio, that we have any thing that affected the entire world, you know, the way this virus did, and with this, people have changed. I know I my family has changed a great deal with this was like a break in the routine, you know, it was a break and how you related to each other was a break and how you celebrated It was a break of going to church, it was a break and going, you know, shopping all the time, you know so many things it was like and I think it's going to have enormous positive consequences. That even for the horror of all the death, it's going to, it has, it has rewritten the future.
And it's sped up they the urgency to address unpleasant underlying aspects of our society, such as domestic violence. Yeah. It's brought that to a heightened level of awareness. And I can't think of the next word I'm trying to say but I was just reading an article last week about England increasing their laws around domestic violence and making them much broader and can't describe it properly. But it just said to me, you know, what can Australia do that? First of all, we've got a problem with it here too. But, you know, it brought that to our attention and increase the urgency at which it was addressed.
Yeah. And I think that's, that's been really scary during the pandemic, that the police are reluctant to arrest people, you know, to put them in jail for things like domestic violence where they would have worked. But because of that, I mean, I know people who've had that experience of, well, we would, but we're not we're not doing that we're not putting people in jail unless we absolutely have to, you know. So anyway, yes, it's really made it heightened
and brought to our awareness what matters most, that's what we're really trying to say here is not that we've we've things have come up, like the domestic violence. And so that's unacceptable. That's not the true way of living. And, therefore, all these other aspects of better relationships, and more respectful of the ones we do love and a deeper connection. And that, and so also in the space of not having the regular work day and weekend schedule and shopping schedule, and so on. We've had more space to notice, in a calling, as well.
Yeah, I think it's been quite dramatic that way, in a good way. You know, it's like, there's so much, of course, that's been painful. But there there is also a change that is going to be I think lasting. And when I even do, I noticed that in like, editorials, you know, I mean, people that used to write just very dry, you know, political lists are what it's like they're, like, almost coming with it's like a Renaissance, you know, of bringing life together with what's going on in the world, and life and love. And in whole I suppose the crazier it gets it's it's been pretty crazy in my country. Yeah, the more that gets pulled up to so at all comes around.
Would you speak with us about every life matters? I'm not referring to Black Lives Matters. I'm just what? Every being has a purpose. And we're all contributing to this. Creation of the new. Yeah. And we just talked about some unpleasant aspects of life. But somewhere in that every, every experience matters.
Yeah. Yeah. So you know, the main theme, I believe, of all this work is to be who you are, to be who you are, were created to be. And that is, you know, something I used to say to my kids, just be who you are and all will be well, you know, just be who you are, be you. You know, don't worry about that be you. But what's happened, often, spiritually, it seems, is sort of a disconnect from our humanity, from the people that we are from our personhood, particularly, in my experience with A Course in Miracles. And it's, I mean, I love the Course in Miracles, I think it's the most brilliant text ever written, but the way it was interpreted, has people talking about we are not real at all, and this life here has basically no meaning. And so the, I believe, at least partially that of A Course Of Love came to bring us back to who we are in this life and that we were each created to be exactly who we are. And that there is a purpose to our life is here, and we find it most surely, and most purely in relationship, and union and relationship that's not by our brains or our minds or are studying, it's by heart. And it's by connecting. And it's a really great message for right now and for any time, but that, you know, experience of people who don't feel that they have a self to bring to the conversation, who are talking almost in a disembodied manner, that experience for me has been quite awful. You know, it, it's like, you know, within five minutes of talking, you and I were like being friends. You know, I mean, it really is true, if you are connecting person to person heart to heart, it comes very quickly, and you're able to talk to each other about just about anything, because you have connected, and there is an exchange going on, it's a knowing and being known exchange is going like this going, like a wave between us, like a mobius strip, just and to not have that going on, is really to leave everything to the mind, you know, that needs these concrete and answers, and so build a concrete reality or fluid, you know, everything is getting more fluid. So I don't even remember your question now. But you are was my answer.
Yeah, I think that's the perfect time to. I wanted to read it. Just a little paragraph from Mirari, right. Okay. So for the listeners, this is Mirari, the way of the Marys. To me, it very much feels like a beautiful discussion of what it's like to live in the new and are very much appreciated, you're bringing through this work as well. So this is page 177. I think I can just read this paragraph. And to me, it held so much magnificence that it stands alone. So So, for those who haven't read this book, this is the voice of Mother Mary, coming through. So from Mother Mary, "the heart of your humanity is your greatest asset, not your downfall. The heart of humanity is your respiration, a constant exchange and inflow and an outflow do not seek for stoppage or for a lessening of the flow that is life, no matter how tender, it causes you to become. Exalt your tenderness. Do not let tenderness stop you from the way opening before you now. Let it take the lead."
You have beautiful reading voice, thank you for reading that so beautifully.
It's sort of, you know, it's it's that recognition that what we can feel absolutely matters. And that that concrete existence that what you just talked about, I often refer to as living from the neck up, you know, you've cut your heartstrings so just from the mind. And that concrete existence can't accommodate the feelings that we all feel everyone feels it's impossible to have a beating heart and not feel, no matter how hard we try to live from the neck up. And, and I just loved that paragraph because, you know, it said tenderness that draws us together that creates the relationships that we're looking for. It's that tenderness that protects us as well keeps us out of trouble in many ways. That the the happen up until I don't want to say recently, but it's I guess it's been common that the people have experienced that tenderness as a burden more than as a gift and told it's a weakness and you're just sensitive. quit being so sensitive. Yes, get over it. Just get over it. Would you get on with life? Yeah. Yeah.
And I think it goes even further to kind of our, our wisdom, you know, that something said, the wisdom, especially of a feminine voice, you know, something said, in a different way than people are used to is so easily put down is so easily discounted. And so Mary coming and rising this way of beautiful language and feeling to a heightened level, I think is actually quite crucial. I mean, the way of the word, you know, I mean, there is something about having our language express more than what the mind can figure out. Yeah, so it's a wonderful movement being taken up. And I think we'll see a lot more beauty and deeply felt wisdom coming to.
So I feel like a beautiful podcast episode might be coming to its completion. And I just wondered if you would offer some encouragement to those who might be new to coming into their tenderness and new to thinking about a different way of relating to life? And who are still feeling that, that call to tap into that deeper part of themselves, even though they don't yet know what that is?
Yeah, yes. But there are beautiful passages that, you know, you can really take to heart and hold with you. The note on being at the end is one I highly recommend. But there's a courage. There's a courage that we need now. And it's the courage to be exactly what we're talking about to be tender, to be vulnerable, to open up to question. And that courage is of the heart, there's a whole language of heart, it comes from the courage in a way that I can't remember, right off the top of my head, but it, it is the place from which the passion that we have for life comes. And there is this opportunity now, to really delve into that passion. And to have a courageous heart. And to not be too discouraged by the mindful people who don't yet know another way to talk or to relate. But when we can find you can have one friend, one person, or you have a knowing and being known, will make it all incredibly doable. Because that is really the key, I believe, is a knowing and being known relationship. It starts low, and it keeps it going. But even in your own imagination in your heart and your dream as you're creating, you can bring your heart out through writing through photography, through care of the environment, you know, there's so many ways you can do it with a new sort of hope, and even joy, you know, I I didn't know that I could be as what's the word I'm looking for? It's sort of like, I've never been a pie in the sky person. You know, I've had a lot of problems. I've, you know, but I do I believe, you know, we can believe again, we can believe in ourselves and in what comes between us. I think that's the greatest asset that we have is that we can connect and that there is an expansion in that ..well...Mary says rise, you know, so I was thinking about that with elevated, you know, I really never liked that word but Mary says rise, you know rise now. And I just love that like if you want I could read that as a for a closure How would that be okay with me, right? Okay. Okay.
Arise and face the day of love speed, rise from your beds to face love, hide no more beneath sleeps blankets, rise to love, rise and be the Risen love, rise and be who you are, who you are is love. You sleep in love, you wake in love, because you are love, because you are loved. Because you are lovable and as innocent as a babe in arms. You are that babe as was my son, born in utter innocence and free of any stain or capability of sin. Your misperceptions are forgiven as quickly as they occur, and brought now to the light of love and time, where you can see that this is so where you can see that you are that which you are and have always been. grieve your dark days only to awaken from them with greater depths of compassion, with greater awareness of love's many expressions, and let them rise from you and with you into time free of the concreteness of the past. offer these qualities of yourself to time itself. So that it may hold open human times awareness. You are not separate from anything, even the illusion of time that you have made. So bring it with you. Bring all with you, in the fullness of time, invite all to rise with you in love for love's sake, for love's sake rise to end the suffering of the human condition, rise to end racism, injustice, abuse, torture and war rise to end the lack that does not need to be rise along with time to call on times ability to heal all wounds to provide for all rise to meet the consciousness of Mother Earth and the love of this time. And this place. Seek no more for what will be love into existence what is speak your own words of love. Raise your voice to love, love all. And I will end there it's about half of love all.
Well, that was very beautiful. And I shall wipe the tears from my eyes. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on the More Love Podcast Mari.
Thank you for reaching out to me, Helen, I really enjoyed getting to know you.
Sorry, I'm sniffling.So that's it for today's episode of The More Love Podcast. I shall put links to all of Mary's books in the show notes page for listeners who haven't yet discovered her work. And I'll reference more accurately on the show notes page all the parts of the books that we've discussed today. So until we talk again, Mari and until the next episode of The More Love Podcast I wish everyone will
love and peace and joy to all of you. Thank you for even considering this opening and your thank you for your courageous hearts.