In this episode of the More Love Podcast Dirk Willner shares his Near Death Experience.  Dirk Willner's NDE experience gives us wonderful insights into our spiritual connection with all that is (whether you call that the Universe, God, Source or Creation), how to strengthen our own spiritual connection to then be able to create spiritual relationships with others, as well as advice from the highest authority about taming the mind to make more room for spiritual connectedness.

How to Strengthen our Spiritual Connection with Dirk Willner

This is an exceptional story, I really do hope you make time for this episode of the More Love Podcast, even if you have to break it up into bite sized pieces - it is a long episode, but it is worth it.

Dirk Willner's NDE experience gives us wonderful insights into our spiritual connection with all that is (whether you call that the Universe, God, Source or Creation), how to strengthen our own spiritual connection to then be able to create spiritual relationships with others, as well as very wise advice about how to tame the mind to make more room for spiritual connectedness.

Spiritual connection - what is it?

"You know, don't dismiss the fact that this searching in your heart and your soul is, is the kind of accidental stuff.  I would actually say - that's actually the really important stuff" DIRK WILLNER

It's the call of your heart to answer the question "who am I" and "why am I here".   It's the very strong sense we all have that there is more to life than meets the eye.  That desire we all have for a sense of connection to ....... Source, Home, Spirit, Love, the Divine - the name doesn't matter, the desire, the yearning to find a greater meaning in life.  

Dirk had been building his spiritual connection from a very young age and had been a Pastor for several decades.  Yet, in preparation for this interview he said to me, that he had to go to heaven to really know what he'd been preaching about all these years!  He has a great sense of humour.  His NDE experience was, of course, unexpected yet holds within profound insights that we can all grasp to strengthen our spiritual connection.

Most people think about spiritual connection in terms of spiritual relationships, yet Dirk wisely points out that we need spiritual connection for ourselves before we can strengthen and repair relationships with others.  

"...the essence of life that's bigger, tap into that, because that grows you into being able to be far more effective in dealing with the people around you, being nicer, being loving, being more..."



At the door of God's Mansion.....

After he passes from his earthly body to the soul level he finds himself at the door of God's mansion, he has a soul recognition of his grandmother and learns that a soul connection doesn't have biological order as we experience in physical form.  

John 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Dirk describes the energy flow that embraced him at the door of the mansion as golden, floating honey that held the aliveness of eternity and felt like a warm glow of pure joy, pure love and as being fully alive, more alive than we can ever feel on earth.  He, like many of my other guests, described returning to physical life as deflating, even despite having a wonderful life and loving relationships.  Yet, he brought a little of that golden honey back with him and can call on it with a sense of familiarity at any time.

As Dirk describes his story he includes the message his wife Penne received as she drove to hospital.  She didn't yet know that Dirk had died and come back and she received a message, perhaps you might say from her spirit guide, that "he died, but he's okay".   An excellent example of the spiritual guidance that's available to us when we have a spiritual connection.  

"We are created in a creation if you like"

The search for a meaningful life and a deep sense of who we really are causes us to open our eyes to seeing life from a spiritual level which allows us to find answers to the deeper aspects of life.  

"you can't interact with [the world around us] unless you have a body. So we are created in a creation if you like. So it's like this is our interaction modality, but it's not defined and limited to that. And so we are actually much more than that, which is often what people who have had a near death experience will tell you that they come back and say, there's so much more to you so much more to everything else around you." DIRK WILLNER

The wonders of Dirk's experience really begin to unfold after he returns home and begins healing.  He continues to have amazing experiences (NOTE's) that hold wisdom for the life lessons we all experience.  One aspect of humanity (or being human) that we all struggle with is the voice is our head.  As Dirk's story continues he is able to pass on a clear 4 step process for clearing our mind and improving our emotional health, limiting bad relationships and allowing more of the beauty of life into our experience.

I'll  summarize here, but highly encourage you to listen to Dirk's explanation first hand, at approximately 43 minutes into our conversation.  For the thoughts that cause us to feel anger, rage, disdain....

1.  Silence them - everything they are going to say is a lie

2.  Bind them so that they can't reach into and contract your life any longer.

3.  Prevent them from being replaced which will allow more spiritual energy or spiritual truth to expand into your life.

4.  Free yourself of judgement and send them to Christ.

The last step, restraining from judgement of self and others is extremely important and was a surprising part of this angelic experience that Dirk describes.  Although these steps, when summarised like this, look simple they are in fact very powerful and meaningful and the discipline to complete them takes courage.  In return for the effort, they expand our awareness of who we really are and strengthen our spiritual connection.


"I just wonder sometimes that with with an awareness of this, that you start to realize that you are indeed fearfully and wonderfully made, that there is actually something really to be proud of in terms of your life, and that curiosity to think, how am I going to grow into the fullness of what I'm actually meant to be? Get rid of the stuff that keeps dragging you down into the ordinary and realize that you're actually extraordinary?"  DIRK WILLNER


Be curious....
Dirk encourages us to be curious, to have deep conversations with other about the unusual experiences we have, to seek for a deep understanding of life lessons so that we truly have a a meaningful life.   To strengthen all kinds of relationships by coming into relationship with the Spirit or God within and without us.  

"I don't think that everyone needs to have a near death experience, or to think that or come to an awareness that I think the fact that there's so many are starting to come out with their stories.... , I think that humanity all around the world is coming into a more of an awareness of this, and an acceptance of this and even an embrace of this."  DIRK WILLNER


John 4:24   God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

As Dirk's experience continues to expand, one of the biggest developments is he finds himself in Dialogue with God.  Discussing the plan for our life, how to get a grip on life and what the 10 commandments are about.  I'll leave these juicy morsels for you to listen to!

Where to find Dirk Willner

You can find Dirk at the Living Grace Church in Toowomba as Pastor and Counsellor.

Here are the links:



You can also use this link to the Near Death Experience Research Foundation to read about Dirk's previous NOTE experiences and watch his account of the NDE he discusses in this episode on youtube from this link also:  



Helen  0:00  

Welcome to another episode of The More Love Podcast. today I have my guest in the room with me quite unusual. We have we're speaking today with Dirk Willner.  welcome Dirk. Oh, Dirk has an amazing story to tell and incredible value to give. So, Dirk, you've had a really profound, transcendent experience. So most listeners know I use the term note, which stands for non ordinary, transcendent experience. And I use that term just for new listeners as an explanation. Because it's more encompassing than specific experiences and can cover anything from falling in love to a near death experience, or an out of body experience or a deja vu or an intuitive experience. And it gives it basically refers to anything that warps the time space continuum, which we all experience, regularly. And that's why the normal the normal part of of life, in my opinion, so yours. I'll just hand over to you, I think, Okay. Would you share with us your amazing NOTE experience? Well, starting right at the beginning, we just plopped you right in it?

Dirk  1:21  

Well, the thing is that, you know, I guess, mine was in an ordinary day, you know, it's was, it's like nothing that would have prepared me that this was going to happen. I'd just turned 40. And, you know, life begins at 40 kind of stuff. So I was I was playing squash regularly we had with my mates, we used to do triathlons, this was on the Sunshine Coast at that time. And it's like going down to the beach for a jog and then into a swim. And then the coffee that was out triathlons, again, with a coffee at the end. But there was nothing at all to indicate that I was going to have a major episode in my life, that changes a lot of things or rather, you know, downloads a lot of things. Yeah. So um, that was way back in 2004. And it was, towards the end of the term just before the Easter holidays, the those holidays started off. And it was the last day when Stephanie picked the kids up from school, Stephanie, my daughter had a dental appointment, we went down there, all of that came back, driving along. And then suddenly, in the car at the set of lights, it happened when there's massive pain hit my chest are a really like a bolt as like, I was keeling over on the steering wheel. It's like so, so severe. And Penne, my wife was next to me. And she's saying, Are you okay? And I'm kinda like a typical guy sort of suck it up and think, yes, and by that stage, the lights are turned green. And, and we proceeded and I'm sort of thinking hold it together hold it together, so and there's immense pain and came home and then Penne was trying to get the doctors is a bit of a story to that, but I'll skip over that. Because really, it's like, you know, ended up in in hospital checked overnight. They threw the book at me in terms of what tests we can do. They did them. I was wired up for sound, you know, everything was beeping and lab tests. And they said in the morning, the doctor, the specialist came and said, Look, we've done everything possible to figure out what this was. We can't find anything at all, in actual fact, and I quote him because I love say that because it's like, yeah, you know, it was pretty fit in those days. And he said, Your heart is textbook perfect. There's nothing wrong. Can we sign you out? And I'm still thinking, yeah, of course. You know, it's like, you know, I was going to tell Penne I told you, so there's nothing.

Helen  3:56  

But the bit you skipped over was the bit that you really were quite resistant, about going to hospital.

Dirk  4:02  

Very resistant, like no way jose am I going to go to the hospital? And so, you know, I was even arguing with the paramedics Look, I can walk myself and they said no, sir you have to lie down on the stretcher is like, Oh, no, it's I was hoping that outside was already dark that no, you know, the neighbors gonna give me a kind of a gawking thing is like, you know, I was just embarrassed. I thought no, no, no. But anyway, yeah. in the morning. It was all okay. Right. So you so think told you so nothing's going on. But that's actually when it happened. And so I was, so the doctor had finished briefing me. And he said says, okay, we sign you out. And and I said, Sure. I'd want to go home. And because I was in the cardiac Ward, and there were a number of beds only because the nurse's station observes everybody. And I my bed was right in front of them. So it was seven o'clock in the morning 7.30 when it actually happened, but the thing is that it was shift changed. So I had double the doctor's double of nurses that were all busy signing paper looking stuff, as you know, and I was sitting on the on the bed watching it all, I'd still had all of the wires on me. And it was breakfast come around, and I had some egg on toast and I was nibbling away. And suddenly, I had this very strange feeling starting off in my, my toes, my feet, it was like I was standing on ants on an ant nest, it was tingling is like, you know, with really strange tingling, that sort of stuff that we get something What on earth is going on? And that kind of started rising up on my legs? And I thought, you know, should I tell one of the nurses or whatever, it is just weird. And they were busy. So I didn't worry. And then suddenly, it went whoosh over me. And I flatlined, and I was dead. Then the nurses were busy. They were busy. So but I was, you know, in the right place at the right time. Because what they then after all of this stuff found out is I gave it a name because it was a really odd thing. So it wasn't a heart attack. It wasn't angina it was any of those kind of anatomical things about the heart, right. So that's why it was never found. But it was electrical. So like, in layman's terms, in my terms, I say I blew a fuse. And it didn't really matter how many times you jumped up and down my my chest there wasn't going to come back again. So it wasn't like, okay, let's keep the heart pumping in, you know, it'll start up again. It was electrical. So I had to have the defibrillators to zap me back. So I was at the right place the right time.

Dirk  6:40  

And what happened? Well, what happened in Yeah, because that's usually the question is like, ...this is where the magic happens.. Yeah. It's interesting, you know, coming back to actually say, Well, this is what happened to me. But did you tell the doctors what happened to you

Dirk  6:57  

much, much later, I did share it with my surgeon who put the pacemaker in me. So they put a pacemaker in there, not because I need it, but just simply because they say we can't trust you being out there that it doesn't happen again. So it's not a pacemaker, I don't have a pacemaker that paces that heart. It monitors the heart. And if it kind of should cut out, it'll, it'll kick in so often say, I've got my own jumper leads with me. But But the thing is that what happened when when I died was was very, very interesting. Because immediately when that those those that feeling came over me, and I flatlined, and I know this now because I mean, I've got the paperwork, and it's like, you know, all of that sort of stuff. So it wasn't like oh, you know, I just dreamt it or it wasn't as severe or whatever it is, I know from the doctors. And you know, they were very frantic, trying to get me back. And so I was flatlining for about two and a half minutes of recorded time. But it, they basically then switch this off and kind of stuff. So I don't know how much longer it was, but they brought me back. And

Dirk  8:13  

so when it happened, immediately, I was surrounded in this void in blackness. Now, I'm only saying that because it's, you know, it wasn't like, okay, you're thrust into his blackness. It was like, everything that was created in my world that surrounded me, it was gone instantly. But I was alive. I had total consciousness that I was alive. But everything that I referenced around me, you know, it was gone. So it was just me. So I would say that, you know, I know, the doctors were working on my body. But there's another part to us, I guess, you know, in terms of our soul, our spirit, or whatever we call, you know, who we really are. That part was then thrust into this experience of what's on the other side kind of stuff. Now, that darkness was very interesting, because I guess we need a body to move. Right. So it was like, how do we how do you move in this void? And I was thinking, you know, and this is funny, because I remember thinking, I remember, you know, the fact is, I knew instantly I was dead. But I had no fear about it. It was not like, oh, freak out, or whatever it is. I'm dead. No, it was like, wow, okay, I'm dead. And it was a such a strong realization of that. It wasn't question it was like, Okay, you've just died. This is now it. And then looking around or thinking, whoa, where do I go? What do I you know? And so is I don't know how long I was in this darkness. But I remember inner darkness and two things happened. One is that first one was while I'm just thinking Where do I go? What do we do? What is this place? I started to see suddenly these two eyes really weird eyes, you know, kind of, you know, yellowish, reddish, not nice kind of have a look into. And it was an I heard in my consciousness I was like not, you know, I wasn't there with hearing it with my ears, but I just heard the, if you liked the conversation, and it and it asked, Can I have this one? Which was a freaky question. Because I don't know if that was to say, Yep, you know, what would have been then? I don't know. But the thing is that behind me there was a voice that says, No, you can't have this one. And it just disappeared again. Right? So he was left in his darkness. And I just simply blurt it out or not, because I thought, okay, you know, what was that voice behind me? No. I said, Okay, God, where do we go from here. And immediately, as I said, that it was like, the hand of God, or something just took me and propelled me through this darkness. And as we were traveling, it was almost like, like a warp travel through this, like, you know, it was amazing. But the thing is that, then, I guess, you know, it's, it's a bit like Star Wars or whatever it is, you know, when you have the warp drive is like zoom is zoom through something, which is another space of reality altogether. And then you it was like, the, like the darkness faded away, like a fog, or who remembers what you're looking at sideways and was like, fading away like a fog. And in front of me, first of all, is brightness. What became apparent as I looked into it, standing in front of this huge mansion. I know that, you know, listeners will always think oh, yeah, you know, of course, you know, you go into there, you sort of think, what are you going to see, but it was it was weird. There's not like the references that I have in my normal, everyday life or desire or anything else. So it was, it was a bit different, but maybe, you know, deep within I'm not sure, but not really. So this mansion was this, or this house was bigger than I could take in, in terms of, you know, standing in front of it. big tall windows. So you can sort of imagine the high ceilings and large windows, and one of the windows was out was open. And there was this golden light inside the house that then streamed out.

Dirk  12:39  

I call it like floating honey. Because the thing is that he was it was so weird. I mean, what I'm talking about otherworldly kind of realities kind of stuff that I experienced there that, so it, it flowed out and went around me and circled me, you know, saturated me as I call it. And in that moment, I was so fully alive and so full of joy, there's nothing that I have experienced this side of eternity, that then that moment of being fully alive. Like, you know, it was like my soul, my spirit had suddenly had a turbo choose chroot turbo juice car, like, you know, in two years, like, wow, you know, this is what being alive is really about. I find that when I had to come back,

Dirk  13:24  

that is like...so deflating. It's like an existence here. And I often share it with people that's like, imagine that you're a bunch of balloons in a packet. And you wonder what is life like outside and someone pulls you out and blows you up, lets you float around, and then lets the air out and then pushes you back again. Well, that was me. It was like, you know, it was pretty deflating, coming back again. But there's a lot more to the story than just standing in front of that.

Helen  13:53  

Can you call that beautiful liquid honey feeling into your life now?

Dirk  14:00  

I would say that, um, I live with it all the time. It's not like it was only something that waited for me then because a lot of the experiences I had in that place and that will get to talk about it that subsequently kind of manifested in my life here. Were Yeah, kind of heavenly or otherworldly, or something that connects me to something outside of my ordinary life. So that that feeling of of warmth and glow and joy, you know, it's it's still with me not to say that all back in this life. I'm just going to be happy Larry. Stuff happens, but there's a lot more resilience that you know, if life gets me down, I'll just go back into that happy place.

Helen  14:52  

Yeah, so..... You were pretty much like snapped out of your body so to speak, but This incredible rush of the the feeling of the biting ants on your body. And this is like this snap experience into the darkness. And then on that you've just explained where you snapped back equally as quickly with the defibrillators.

Dirk  15:17  

Well, when I, when I was up there, let's let you know terms of let's call it Heaven, or whatever it is, or heavenly experience. That golden light that surrounded me wasn't just then, okay, that's it. And now snap back, it was now almost like, now have this life in me, right. And then I saw that the door to this building was open. And I went over there and had a look inside. And there was a person next to me, I didn't pay much attention to but as I looked inside, I could see that the place was filled with, with some some people, but I didn't know them, or they weren't familiar to me, because at that stage, I didn't actually have anybody in my family, except for my grandmother, who'd passed away, right? So it's not like I knew who these people were. But I just wonder, sometimes, you know, it was like, Who were these people and I just sort of jokingly say that there must be a billboard in Heaven was a dope died, you know, Who is that? Who knows him, let's, let's go and say hi to him. I don't know whether that was the case. But it's kind of a funny thing that you know, this crowd of people, right. And they were all were all dressed in white. But it was like, the clothes were like, likely, they I don't want to say designer clothes. But it seemed that the clothes fitted the person was like they wore their personality they wore, you know, so it wasn't like, oh, everyone had you know, white robes. And we're suddenly kind of like, in a floating around was very human, very earthy. But but different. And, but the golden light was was still there, you know, in them and around. And so it's like, you know, seeing in this kind of a way. But um, in that crowd, I saw a familiar face, which was a bit strange, because I know my grandmother was way old. And she was very fragile, and she had died from you know, the arteries were calcified. And so the feet would cut off and then up to here was a terrible way to kind of like, go, but so I looked and I thought, I know that smile. But I've never seen my grandmother young or without the, the wear and tear of this life. You know, she was like, fully alive fully, maybe the way that we were meant to be or I remember even talking to people who have reached 100 and I sort of said to them, How old do you feel unless they're saying, Well, if I look in the mirror, I know that I'm 100 and have my body is aching. But if I close my eyes and just think about who I am, I'm still at 20 something, you know, so I think the soul doesn't actually age maybe it just reaches that 20 something, and then we just cruise along in that place. But I looked at her and I saw this smile and immediately from the door there I was right next to her, there's almost like space didn't matter anymore. It was just zapped one was right there. And suddenly I knew it was my grandmother without even having to say anything because I'd like I said, Oh is just in that moment wondering or thought, Wow, I've never seen you fully alive. I only remember you as my grandmother. And there was something else that was different. In here on this side, she was my grandmother, you know, there's a biological kind of, of connection, whatever it is over there was almost like, she was her own person. I don't know how to describe that. It was like I knew who you were. I knew that previously, you were my grandmother. But now this is it's like everyone's on the same plane. everyone's on the same level, there was no biological, okay, you know, line or whatever it is, you were a person on your own and fully alive if you like. And then that kind of like, you know, went back to the door. And the person that I said that I ignored at the door. There was interesting this, I thought, Okay, well, you know, you're still standing there. So I looked down, and I saw his feet and it's like, you know, in their head, some scars on their feet. And I thought, Oh, that's I think I know who you are. And, you know, looked up further and you know, kind of like, you know, had a bit of a Jesus outfit sort of thing with the golden sash aruond. But the funniest thing about this vision or this This, you know, part of that near death experience was that here, and I'll say it in terms of Jesus was was there but he was holding a goblet of wine. It's like welcoming, it's like, you know, who would think that you'd come into heaven, it's like, you know, this Goblet of wine.

Dirk  20:18  

That's the way it is the. But, you know, so So part of my life is that I'm actually also a pastor, and a counselor. And there's actually some reason to this, which I had no attention to it beforehand. But obviously, this is now sort of like, okay, pay attention here. So for instance, when, you know, Christians have Holy Communion, is the cup, and Jesus was talking about this is my cup of the New Covenant of a salvation of the covenant, meaning a promise. So a test mediocre, like, you know, this is what I'm going to do. And I'll, you know, lock it in, if you like. And that event, however, is based on even older event when the Jews went out of Egypt and escaped. And when they have the Seder meal, they have this meal that has four cups, it's that meal, the Passover meal that Jesus said to His disciples, go and get that ready. And then he had one of those cups and said, This cup is my blood of the, you know, New Covenant, right? But there are four. And if you read that passage, then it goes on, and he didn't do the last one. He said, The last one I'll have with you in my father's house. And then he took the disciples out, and I went to the garden of Gethsemane, and then you have the whole story of, you know, going to the cross. But the thing is, I never paid any attention to the fact that this this last cup, if you like, in here, am I in heaven and it's like, this is the last cup, the cup of salvation, if you like the cup of fulfillment of you know, it's like, no, isn't that a nice thing to actually sort of think that you're going to step into heaven or having a cup of wine is like it's funny. Yeah. But um, yeah, so. So here I was then, and this thing happened. And then an angel went past him. And I knew it was an angel, because he was different from the people that I saw in the crowds. So he just came past. He quickly whispered something and moved on. And then Jesus turns and says, Oh, it looks like you're gonna have to go back. But this is will be, we're waiting for you when you come.

Dirk  22:34  

And then you were asking the question, how did you snap back and it was like, suddenly, it was like, I was, it looked like, when you're on the bottom of the pool, and you're looking up, and all the bubbles are floating up. And I was just floating up with a bubbles, and then suddenly, bang, I was back into my body and opened my eyes and was strange, because something of that residue was still with me, because suddenly, it was almost like, I could take in everything. At the same time, it was sort of an out of body experience, but still in my body is like, you know, it's a strange kind of a feeling. And then you start to realize that you know, that the nurses and the doctors were frantically working on you. And I were happy that they got me back. And everyone was screaming, going, you know, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. And so quietly, everything came back to normal. And I had a number of episodes again, where it's like, you know, suddenly was dropping out. And then, so I had a nurse with me all the time. And they said, Look, we've got to put a pacemaker in you. So this was Easter weekend. And so the surgeons and doctors were'nt anywhere. So it was an ER thing through my artery through the neck, down into the heart. And so they put a huge plaster on me. Now, when Penne came to see me then in the morning,

Helen  23:56  

no more I told you, so

Dirk  23:57  

no more. But the thing is, it's so you know, I came, I was basically out of the ward and having this thing put into me. And Penne was in the morning, ready to come had the kids with her. My eldest, Stephanie took our youngest to the playground. And Nicholas came in with and look, she came into the ward. Now just I'll just sort of have a backstory. When she was driving to the hospital. She kept on hearing in her head, he died, but he's okay. He died, but he's okay. It just kept on repeating in her head. So she says, you know, this is her story, but she sort of what a silly thing. It's like, you know, just, you know, totally ignoring it and shoving it away, but it kept on saying he died, but he's okay. So she comes into the ward, where I was supposed to be. And the nurses says are, you know, are you Penne? And she says, yes. Where's doing? Oh, well, there's been an incident. He died, but he's okay. So it's like, so then I came down With this patch on me and this, you know, external pacemaker or whatever it is it me waiting for when the surgeons could come up from Brisbane, or our you know, went back from their holidays. And then they did the real thing and put a pacemaker in me. And here I am sort of thing.

Helen  25:17  

Well, wow, I was find these stories just stop me. You know, I, when I when I have this privilege of these conversations, I find that the the presence of the that's held within the story just stops me, huh. It's really beautiful, but also quite difficult to ask the next question.

Dirk  25:43  

What's the next question? Well, you know, this next question for me was really having a question about what happened to me. I really was in a bit of a place of confusion.

Helen  25:58  

And was that confusion uncomfortable or pleasant?

Dirk  26:01  

No, it was uncomfortable, not in a bad uncomfortable away, it was like, it was the confusion was that it was so good and so inviting. I would have imagined if I would have stepped over that threshold at the door and picked that cup up. I would have been really delighted to be there. So coming back was a bit of a downer, like I said, you know, and, and yet, I've got to say the confusion was just, you know, love my life. love my family love my wife. And and, and Okay, what? What does that mean? And how am I going to put my feet back on the ground, so to speak,

Helen  26:44  

is just to remind the, you know, the listeners that your life was incredibly full? Yeah, it was jam packed every moment of the day. You weren't? Yeah, it was just a full life, wasn't it? It's not like it was a life lacking in anything. No. So to be in that confusion, it's a serious confusion.

Dirk  27:09  

But, you know, the confusion is having a foot in both camps now. Yeah, like, the reality of what I just saw was very real, actually, to me more real in just those two and a half plus minutes of that experience, on the other side, was more real to me than the 40 years that I'd lived previously. And it was like, so intense and inviting, that I longed for it even now, you know, but the thing is that I know, being here, something about No, you're here for a purpose, you'll hear for reason, you know, the our life here has reason and purpose. It's not as you know, a holding pattern just waiting until we go that so often say to people, if you're still breathing, you've got a reason to hear you know, there. So it's it's an important thing to discover. What's the reason for you being here? What do you still need to discover about who you are? Because, look, it was like, I knew who I was on the other side, just as much I was here. But it was sort of thinking, I don't want to go to the other side with all my dirty laundry, you know, it just get your life sorted, get things fixed, because it's like, you are who you are, you know, this side and that side. You know, it wasn't like, suddenly, there was something woe magically. And I became a super human being I was who I was. So I was sort of thinking when I came back. Yeah, look, you know, there's, there was real reason for some of the things that and it's across the, you know, whatever religion or, you know, thoughts that there are, it's, when you're talking about how do you find your true humanity? How do you find your true identity? And there's so much confusion about any of that, or even today? How do you find who you really are? I mean, we're on that journey. And it's like, no, figure it out here. You know, this is important stuff.  

Helen  29:11  

Yeah. Yep. But we live in a world where it says work hard love later. And it's back to front.

Dirk  29:20

You know, one of the things that I come back now and sort of think is really enjoy the moment you know, every day see it as a gift in that moment? Yeah, enjoy what's happening. I don't see things anymore in terms of accidental you know, everything that happens in the day that people I mean, the people that you meet, I mean, you know, even now, everything has a reason to have everything as a purpose that nothing is by accident. And for a long time Even now, I mean, I love watches, but I hardly wear them because it's almost like, the previous life I had was on my time, you know, busy, busy, busy do do do. And, you know, being a bit of an alpha type is like, you know, it, let me at it, I'll, I'll make it happen. But it was kind of like, that's changed significantly when I came back, it was far more relaxed, far more, enjoy what you've got there enjoy the moments that are given they have keep coming back to it, they have reason to have purpose.Helen  30:35  Absolutely. So I do want to get on to the the part that happened after you.

Helen  30:41  

Haha.  But what right now I want to ask, it's sort of, in a way, you know, if you just take a logical listen to this experience that you've had, it kind of sounds like we've got these two parts of us. But I think of them as one we're one being in, in a in a human experience, I guess, extended forward into human experiences, the language that I like to use. But you've you've had a foot in both camps. So how do you explain it?

Dirk  31:20  

I've read quite extensively different philosophies and so forth. And one of the things is, is often a preoccupation. Are we a body with a soul? Or are we a soul with a body? And what is the purpose of the body? What is the purpose of the soul? Are they so connected, that, you know, if the one passes, the other one passes? In other words, there's nothing after this if your body dies, then that's it? Or is there more to who you are that when you do die, when the body ceases to function, the way that it's designed to do? Well, what happens then, and so this experience like, no, there's more to you, then, than just the functioning part of your body. Now, I know that we need a body in order to interact with the, you know, the stuff all around us, you can't interact with it unless you have a body. So we are created in a creation if you like. So it's like this is our interaction modality if you like, but it's not defined and limited to that. And so we are actually much more than that, which is often what people who have had a near death experience will tell you that they come back and say, there's so much more to you so much more to everything else around you. And I think it really opens up your eyes to the fact that we often find ourselves so tied to the limited version of us. And hence, I think, you know, like your podcasts and the focus on on discovering what is love, we limit that as well, you know, we limit our understanding of who we are and who the other person is, and what the point of it all is. And so that depletes what we're going to do next. And so it's kind of like a really poor version of us dealing with other people who are dealing with poor versions of themselves, not really kind of coming into saying, hold on. What's the bigger picture here? I'm not just talking about, you know, what else can we think of, but what else is there about the essence of life that's bigger, tap into that, because that grows you into being able to be far more effective in dealing with the people around you, being nicer, being loving, being more whatever it is that you need to be in that person. Because so often when you just dig into ourselves, and it's like, man, there's a bit of an empty pit here.

Helen  33:47  

Sometimes, you know, I struggle with the concept of the answer is within us. Because, in a way, if we're far more than our physical body, my brain sometimes says what, maybe the answer is outside of us, you know, it's just this silly little thing that my brain does.

Dirk  34:04  

But I think you're right. But not quite

Helen  34:07  


Dirk  34:08  

I think it's actually both Yes, yes, you know, the answer is within us. And the answer is outside of us, the answer within us is that we've got to connect to the things that are on the outside of us. Because it's almost like, you know, how, I mean, we understand computers, we need another download in order to have another upgrade. So it's like, you know, we understand how that works. And I think within our soul, our spirit out who we are, we certainly can get to a certain level by our sheer willpower in meditation and everything else like that. But it's limited to, again, who we are. So you're just digging in with, you know, the resources that are already invested in you as a person. But if you then have the ability or the connection that hold on is also a connection outside of you, if you like a download into you. So it's both I think, because when the download happens you have Have something within you.

Helen  35:02  

Yeah, a bigger well to tap into and to extend from? well enough about my thoughts what happened after the pacemaker was installed and you eventually got to go home and you restrained from saying I told you so Penne?

Dirk  35:19  

I did tell her that! um, so yes, got home, obviously on on sick leave and you know, I often say to people that what happened next I've got to say look, I wasn't on drugs from the, from the doctors or anything else like that all I had was, you know panadol to you know, for the pain of you know, having that surgery done putting the pacemaker in. But even when they put the pacemaker in, I was wide awake, I just had a local around my chest, as they were cutting it open, I was watching the monitors. And you know, it's like the lead coming in and you know, tapping it into the heart and then into the unit and tucking it under the skin and sewing it up. So I was watching it all with fascination, but thing is always wide awake. So often say it's like, I just had a local, that's it. But by the time they had to send me out, back home, that was already out of my system too. But then I got home and of course, news got around. So as it happens, then, you know, friends and family, they pop around and say hi, how are you doing would happen? Are you okay? I was in bed in the afternoon when this next part happened. And just had everyone popping in saying hi. And then Penne took them all over into the next room for a chat and coffee. And I was still sitting there in bed up with pillows. Not  dazing off, I just had, you know, a lot of stimulus from all the chat stuff. So it wasn't like, oh, now I'm dozing off and I went into lala land or something No, totally wide awake. And suddenly, you know, they closed the door and left me to myself. But I had this prayer this this, this question, why God, I know you can switch me off and on but what for what's the purpose? So I had this constant kind of okay, please explain sort of thing in my head. And rather than sort of saying, Oh, well, it was because of this and having a kind of aha moment. Oh, now I understand. No. So what was it that came in, it was like, from my, from my right hand side was like, suddenly these beings came in and appeared around my bed and angelic beings, right? So not, you know, they were full of sparkel, far taller and more robust than we are a bit like, you know, Schwarzenegger in his prime sort of thing. But, but I'm talking about, you know,

Dirk  37:58  

majestically built, like, you know, it's like a force to be reckoned with, you know, bulk you know, but they were fantastic. They were sparkly. You know, like often say, you know, party sparklers. Just imagine the whole body is like this, this sparkle of so was not like us human flesh and bones sort of stuff. But this anatomically like us. I'd say so, but but full of this energy full of this sparkel full of this wow. And there were five of them who appeared around my bed. And the one on my right, obviously a little bit more senior than the others. I don't know. But he was the one who started off and said to me it in my knowing right. So it wasn't like I heard them in my ears. It was like in my knowing my understanding what instructions if you got for us? I laughed. And I said, What do you mean? instructions if you want instructions you know your angels, you go to God for instructions give you instructions. And then he said put your hand in my hand. This is where it gets weird. So listeners, you know, I'm just taking out the disclaimer kind of..... It gets weird. It was weird for me. Alright, so it was like, you know, it's so it was strange. So I looked at his hand as he put his hand out and I thought wow, you know, it looks just like our hand you know, five digits and you know the arms and exactly like us and I thought I'll see where this is gonna go. I put my hand into his. And as soon as I had my hand into his, it was like electrifying is like this Zappa talking about a download this zapping and immediately, I spoke in this angelic language. I have no idea what I'm saying. But it sounded beautiful. It was like a language that wasn't gibberish. It wasn't like da da da da da. It's a It's a beautiful language that came out and I'm listening to myself saying this and I'm sort of thinking, Wow, it's like SBS. You know, it's like, you see all the different languages like anyway So I finished there and the other guy, then the other angel said, Now it's my turn. So I put my hand into his. And immediately I had a different language. And so I went around the five. And I had five different languages at the end of it. Still speaking now it's like, but the funny thing is that once I that done, it was almost like they got their instructions. Now, I have no idea what it said. And they just turned where they were, and suddenly disappeared. And right at the end, on my bed, there was this other little angel, but he was, he didn't seem to be so it's such a force to be reckoned with. He was, it was almost like a little bit of a joker, and, you know, like, like a good friend or whatever it is that you'd have. He was at the end of the bed. And I was on a roll at this stage. And also I thought, okay, and also I say to him, Well, what can I do for you? So thinking, I'm dispensing all of these things, I might as well. So I said, you know, what can I do for you? And he said, Nothing. I'm just here for you. And I thought, Oh, you're my guardian angel. And he just smiled and, and turned again and disappeared, right? So I thought, Man, now I've had an heavily experience. And now I've got this angelic experience these other beings can imagine now it's like, you know, how am I how am I kind of question to God? So like, in his prayer time, and so we're thinking, Okay, God, what was this switch on switch off? I knew I can do that. Now this, what am I supposed to do with this. And that was moving out of kindergarten into into high school, kind of

Helen  41:32  

all the more bamboozled, very bamboozled. But I'm with a, with an underlying sense of reassurance, though, was there,

Dirk  41:42  

there was something very interesting about it, because the next day, it happened again, but in a totally different way. And I think this is one of the things that when we're talking about what else is there, so for instance, for me, knowing that we live in a world that we can see, but there's also an unseen world that is all around us. You know, we don't pay any attention to it. Unless you know, you're suddenly have a bit of a revelation, check out there's more to life than meets the eye. So the next day, I remember my in laws came, and from Brisbane and they came up and visited. And it's like, again, in the afternoon sort of stuff and my mother in law loves the cafes on the Sunshine Coast. So she saw like, popped in. And you know, hi, how you doing? Fine. Okay, you're, you're all right, I want to have a coffee. now. Come on, we're gonna pack everyone up. And we're gonna leave you here and, and go. So they left closed door and off, they went with silence in the house. And I'm still stuck with these questions now after two very strange experiences. And I'll get back into Okay, what is this all about? And sure enough, this time these beings came in, but they were very different. They kind of came in like a like a bunched group. And they looked grayish parch parchment paper, you know, sort of weird gray kind of look to them.

Helen  43:11  

Kind of emptiness

Dirk  43:12  

empty. Oh, yeah. And they came in and immediately filled, I could feel the sense that they filled the room with such rage, anger, disdain. It's almost like, you know, if they could they wondered, rip me from limb to limb, sort of, like, you know, I thought, urgh, you know, what is happening now, as as they came in? I heard it. Again, God speak into my voice. And it says, This is what I want you to do with these angels. I thought do with these angels or Okay, so, obviously not the same lot that we had last time. So, because the funny thing is that when I came in, because I didn't know what I was saying, I thought I must have given the wrong instruction. So apologize. Sorry, Did I say something wrong? So yeah, that's when God says This is what I want you to do with them. So um, and the funny thing is, they gave me a four part, okay, this is what I want you to do with them. Instead, the first thing is, shut them up, mute them, silence them, everything they're going to say is just a lie. How much of that other you know, there's entities in our life are just constantly throwing lies at us, you know, it's like, You're worthless, you're, you know, no good, you're gonna have an accident. You're, you know, all these negativity, all these negative thoughts. And it was almost like, press the mute button, stop. They're talking, you know, second thing that he is will say is now bind them. It's almost like, you know, so much of what God wants to give to us, or life wants to give to us all the good things that get sabotaged, or they get sidetracked or they get taken away. It's almost like you know, sort of think why. Why does life suck so much in terms of the fact that I know these good things are there but they're constantly get taken away by this, that or the other and it's almost like bind them so that don't have a reach into your life to take the things out of your life. Right? So it's like, Okay, that makes sense. It's like, you know, okay, two things make good sense. The third one was, then prevent them from being replaced. And I thought this one was an interesting one. Because so often, you know, we can have a little bit of, you know, counseling of an Ok I'm a counselor, and you do a lot of counseling, where you sort of like, have a breakthrough, and then they go back again, it's like a couple steps forward, three steps back, you know, this sort of kind of thing. And it got me thinking that we actually might have been successful, except it's like tag team, okay, we threw one out, and it's like, okay, over to you. And we think, okay, we still got the same problem. Now. It's just another one of those entities that is pushing us back down into the ground, and causing the end of misery. So it's like, okay, that's the third one is kind of, like, you know, prevent their replacement. And then I thought I'm going to get in there is like, you know, I'm still thinking, yeah, okay. So I thought, Okay, and then send them to hell. And it's interesting, because also, God said, No, don't send them to hell, send them to Christ for judgment. And I thought, wow, this really was an interesting one, because I think a lot of people are often very quick to judge

Dirk  46:17  

Yes, you know,

Dirk  46:19  

either each other, or in this case, you know, even heavenly beings or fallen beings, whatever it is, and it's like, he's taking the whole thing of judgment totally out and says, It's not your place to judge, you know, send them send them to me to judge is like, you just deal with what you need to do with and then send them to me, judgment is, my domain is not your domain. And I thought that was an interesting one that, you know, immediately, that kind of was impressed upon me, which is an interesting outcome. Now, in my everyday life, that in my dealings with people, it's almost like there is far more respect to the journey that they're on. Rather than wanting to push a certain agenda, or certain belief or certain anything, it's like, you know, to trust that what you're on what you're discovering, is actually what you need to work through. Now, of course, we're here to give a little bit of our wisdom and, you know, that's part of the conversations that we share, but to you know, respect that the other person is on a journey. And they've got the choices that make it's not your choice to make it for them, even to the point of making a judgment on them, whether or not this that or the other is like, nope, respect the person respect even these entities, it's not yours to come into the area of judgment. And so I did that. And then immediately again, it was like, they just turned and disappeared. And I thought, Man, oh man. So all that time, I did not tell my heavenly experience, my angelic experience or anything like that to anybody. So when they came back from the coffee, and finally said, bye to the inlaws, and it was quiet, and I just had Penne on my own sort of like, you know, evening. And I said to her, you know, can I share something with you, and then I started opening up, and to my surprise, she was very accepting. And then I started share that with a couple of very trusted friends. And they were, wow, you know, accepting. And one of the friends that I had, so as I said, I was a minister on the Sunshine Coast. At that time, there was another pastor who was a friend who came to visit me in hospital. And when, when this happened, he saw me and he said, You are beaming from ear to ear you Something happened when you're ready to tell me. I'd love to listen, what happened to you. Before that I told nobody is so confidence was getting up. And I thought, Okay, look, you know, I'll share this with you know, we had a cup of coffee, and I shared it, and he thought, wow, can you share this with our congregation one day? And I thought home man, this is, you know, but I thought, look, if it helps someone, if it does something, you know, good, if it brings some more confidence, and I did, they recorded it. In those days, it was on, you know, VHS, which, you know, probably a lot, a lot of young listeners probably wouldn't even know that. It was on tape. Before DVD, no before DVD, and it's like, you know, 2004 we're talking about And so that then was taped. And without my knowing it was spread around like wildfire, though, you know, they were in hot production just because the demand was just so they sent it everywhere. And suddenly other people found out about it, and the following year 2005 there was a

Dirk  50:03  

an event up here in Toowoomba, that was called 40 days of unity where all these churches came together and did some some unity kind of work. And so they had this conference will, you know, and guest speaker and like found out about it and called me up. So would you like to have like a look, you know, so I came up thinking it might be just a little bunch of people. But no, it was at the Empire theater. And there were busloads of people from all sorts of places coming to hear it. And they videoed it professionally. Right. The other one was just, you know, what someone put together? No, this one was like, top cameras. And so it was then aired on Christian cable TV, and it was like all over the nation. So I was like, okay, not my story anymore. This is now out. So I've come to terms with the fact that it's okay to share the story. Because, you know, Helen one of the things that I have discovered, when I've shared this, so many people have come back to me and said, You know, I had an experience. But I did not want to tell it to anybody. But because you had it your a pastor, you might understand data. And then they share these stories with me. There are so many stories that I've come across that people then open up. Yeah, there are a lot more than you think.

Helen  51:24  

Yeah, NOTES, it's a normal everyone. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a, you know, that's why I use the term NOTE in this podcast, because these experiences happen, way more, yours is an incredible experience. But even, there's this incredible variety of experiences that everyone has that says there's more to life than meets the eye, that, but we're nervous to talk about them,

Dirk  51:50  

I would just encourage everyone get curious about it. You know, it's not actually that fearful. I think we often prevent ourselves from stepping into something bigger because of fear, you know, step into it with faith. And, you know, this idea that, you know, that God showed me this, this angelic world, if you like, and yes, there is stuff that, you know, tried gets you down, but you've got some power over that, too, you know, he wouldn't have told me to say like, you know, just shut them up and bind them and kick him out. It's like, you know, they don't have anything to do with your life up. You know, but but even there respect them, it's like, no, it's not yours now. Just go and condemn them. If you're like, it's like, so that was a weird thing, isn't it? You know, that even in that realm, the issue of respect for one another, is, is upheld. I think, you know, if it's there, it should also be the side of eternity.

Helen  52:49  

And it also suggests that all experiences are necessary. Yeah. That this, you know, the angelic beings of majesty and the beings that were mischievious, if that word applies, all experiences unnecessary to create a whole.

Dirk  53:12  

I just wonder sometimes that with with an awareness of this, that you start to realize that you are indeed fearfully and wonderfully made, that there is actually something really to be proud of in terms of your life, and that curiosity to think, how am I going to grow into the fullness of what I'm actually meant to be? Get rid of the stuff that keeps dragging you down into the ordinary and realize that you're actually extraordinary?

Helen  53:52  

Yes. And not separate from that extraordinary part of you, even though you're having a human experience.

Dirk  54:01  

I don't think that everyone needs to have a near death experience, or to think that or come to an awareness that I think the fact that there's so many are starting to come out with their stories, and I heard a quote, somewhere, just come to mind, because I'm on. I'm on a near death Research Foundation, web page as well. And I think I came across there. But they, you know, there are doctors now who are coming out with statements about this, in support, and all the way through to different people from different walks of life. And the quote goes something like this, the evidence for life after death is like looking at Mount Everest and thinking it's not there. It's like so overwhelming. And I think we're coming into, I think that humanity all around the world is coming into a more of an awareness of this, and an acceptance of this and even an embrace of this. And so I would, you know, think that Curiosity is not something that killed the cat. I think curiosity is actually something that will give you your little morsel of of yumminess. If you'll go for it.

Helen  55:11  

Yeah, some people will call it the juiciness of life, don't they? Yeah. So, now given you've got that really strong Christian background, and you're still working in that sort of field, shall we say, I can't think of a better word. Do you see God as a separate being?

Dirk  55:37  

How do you mean separate?

Helen  55:40  

Oh, that's hard to answer. You know, when you were on the other side, and and you still had an entity that you identified as you, or part that you identified as you, feeling that you were you? Is God, separate to you? Or in that realm, on the other side, do we all become one somehow? Where's the Oneness coming in? I guess, maybe the question. Um,

Dirk  56:18  

you know, what the experience that I had on the inside out, or that have an experience, or whichever way that we kind of like its hard to put words around it is talk about it, it's like, you know, that sort of thing that we call God is actually a mystery of this always more. Right? It's kind of like, you know, I think God is actually calling us ever closer into an experience of what, what does that mean to be in connection with God? So in terms of the fact that, that as you have more experiences, you may think that Wow, there is something closer of God within me kind of stuff like that, you know, because it's like, you know, his calling or you know, that the into into closer relationship allows you to see something of what he sees in us? I don't know. So, but the thing is that the best way that I can describe it, that, you know, the oneness, then is actually the experiences that you are found in that relationship. And it's a tight relationship we use with use the word one, actually, even biblically speaking, that oneness is a very interesting concept that I don't think a lot of Christians have really contemplated, because they're in in, in the New Testament in a book called The Gospel of john, Chapter 17. You see Jesus prayer for, for us. And there's an interesting concept that is there in the prayer where he says, May they be, as you know, all of us, may they be one with us, as I in the father of one, he speaks about that oneness already, and is actually drawing us into such a close connection, that you know, when we're talking about who is Jesus, who is God kind of stuff that, you know, he talks about the oneness with God. You know, even later on in john is it... 14, when they're sort of, you know, where the disciples say to him, show us the Father. And he says, you know, if you have this, yeah, you say, me, you've seen the Father and the Father of one. So he speaks of oneness all the time. And I think what we get drawn into, if you like, that experience I had in heaven, or even with angelic kind of stuff, is that oneness of connection. And the more that you get connected into that oneness, the more it feels like everything is just one. Do you know what I mean? But it's actually about connections, and drawing us ever closer into greater connections. I don't think Heaven is limited. I think what we have here is limited. And I think our journey our searching is actually really a god deposit within us that says, You wait, you haven't seen anything yet? I think this idea that God breathed eternity into us is not you know, this caricature that we're going to be on a cloud,  playing a harp and thinking that's it. I think it's going to be that search for more and more and more, because I think what God has created is always beyond us, and drawing us into something greater. So when you then think about it, a person who has discovered something it may actually seem in relationship in comparison to someone who's not even interested, that wow, you know, they've discovered something and the other person has still yet to come to a realization that there is more.

Dirk  59:48  

But I think the call is actually on all of us. There is more. Seek that. So I don't see I think when we use the word separation and that means it Even terms of body and soul or you know us here and there. separation is a human term that I think is part of our fallen condition. And one of the things that God does is actually repair and make connections, and brings us back into that relationship. So I think that, you know, if that's the agenda, you know, for everything that we have in terms of the message, and, you know, Christmas, Easter, the whole thing is actually about God creating connections again, and drawing us into that connection. And if that's the case, then what should we be about? What should we be doing? Shouldn't we be repairing the connections? Why shouldn't we be honoring the connections that we have, and making those connections with other human beings that we have something beautiful, where you sort of think, Wow, that was a good day, the people I met, that was a real fun experience, you know, it really blessed me with was a blessing. He knows, like, you know, wow, everything turned out cool. And be a blessing to the others, you know, make their day, you know, put a smile on their face? Wouldn't that be kinda like, you know, what would the world be like, if we focused on, on repairing the separation with connections again? There's too much I mean, I'm a counselor as well, right? I see so much separation in couples and families and whatever it is. But, you know, they start to put a smile on their face again, when they start to heal, both within themselves as well as in relationships, because connections are made again. I think that's oneness. Hmm.

Helen  1:01:41  

Yeah, and just a smile can do it. A smile started my journey a long time ago, but it was, it was a smile,

Dirk  1:01:48  

you know, when I came up here, to Toowoomba. So previously, I was done with Gold Coast, and everyone is so busy chasing after everything else, that really doesn't matter. But they're chasing after it. And you can see on their faces, they're stressed. They're strained no, smile. I mean, the thing is, a lot of people come to the Gold Coast, because they want to get away from the stress for a holiday. But you know, it's like just a momentary respite, and then you go back, and it's like, back into the grindstone back into the tension back into the, whatever. It's like, so it's a, it's a false kind of a thing. So you don't see too many people smiling. Unless it's like, you know, oh, you know, I'm having a great time and all that sort of stuff. Because if you really look to see the strain on people's busy, busy life face.  Up here, it was so funny because I think in Toowoomba, people are still, or at least mike mike coming up to two one, but I noticed the difference between down there and up here that people smiled. And when I first came up here and was, you know, connected to congregation or whatever it is, I did a lot of people knew me, I didn't know them. Right. So it was funny, because, you know, you go to the checkouts or the Grand Central or whatever it is, and people smile at you. And so we're thinking, am I supposed to know you? There's like do you know me, it's like you start these conversations, assuming that I actually know you from that, you know, it's no, no, no, I'm just smiling at you. Wow, that's such a nice way to live is just, you know, smiling, that makes your day as you said, you know, just be busy smiling rather than life is too short, to focus on all the wrong things. I think life is very valuable when you focus on the right things.

Helen  1:03:41  

Absolutely. So, did we finish your story?

Dirk  1:03:47  

Not really. There's wait, there's more kind of stuff, isn't it? Yeah.

Dirk  1:03:54  

So.....this happened much, much later on, after this, so I was getting ready to come into work, and I still had some time off. So it's like, I'm cool. Everything's, you know, sorted. I'm getting better and better. But this voice that I heard in heaven become a familiar part of my prayer life, though. It's not like it was like a monologue anymore. I hope that you get the memo. God, you know, it's like, no, it's starting to become more and more like a dialogue and stuff where you, we start to have ears to hear if you're like, you know, kind of stuff we saw, I think, anyway. I had three conversations with God sort of thing. And people think, you know, and this is again, weird, but it was like, it was such a nice delightful conversation that came out of the blue. And the first one every time it started off with a question, which is not normally the way that you think, you know, a prayer life would end up being but it was slow. Yeah. So this one that God sort of came and spoke into my life, and he sort of said, Do you know have a plan for everybody? It's like, you know, as well, I'm, I'm looking around it, but it was like, as if I, you know, someone was next to me and looking around, I thought, wow. And then I thought, No, this is the, this that voice that I heard in heaven, I thought, Okay, let me know. I'm sure you have got a plan for everybody. And it's no, no, no, I've got a plan for everybody. And he started sharing with me about how, like an architect, you have a blueprint, that you you cannot put the raw schematics together, right. This way, everything's should should connect, and then you build a building, right? So and, but what do we do, we roll it back up again, put it on a cylinder, and I don't know, just put in a safe place, a safe place or put it in place we forget, you know, very safe, yeah, very safe!. And then the builders come with all of the bricks and the beams and the windows and whatever it is, life starts to happen, right? And then we saw was, you know, the builders say, okay, where's this going to go? Well, how are we going to end we in turn, because we don't reference anything. So I don't know, let's just put it together. And then we wonder why our life sometimes looks like a jumble of a mess, because we have not actually build it the way it was purposed. And I mean, that also, in terms of the circumstances in life, that happened, good or bad, or whatever, they all have a place to fit, they all have a reason to be, you know, it's that brick in the wall, you know, whatever it is, that all fits together and builds something. So that was the first conversation that I had with him. The second conversation on totally, again, different random moment in the day. And he said, you know, how to get a grip on life. And I thought, oh, and it's that voice again, okay, how do you get a grip on life? Not what? Not? Well, how do you get a grip on life? I don't know. You know, the funny thing is, I don't even remember it. So I don't know, fast track me. I actually said when I like Get to the point.

Dirk  1:07:20  

And I said, well look at your hand. I looked at my hand. And I said, Yeah. Okay, you know, he said, we noticed that the thumb is different from the fingers. Yeah. Okay. And he said, Do you know what the four fingers represent? And I thought, Okay, how do you get a grip on life? I don't know. What do they represent. And there's a passage that's both in the Old Testament and repeated in the New Testament, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind with all your soul with all your strength. Right? So, you know, the, the call your podcast of, you know, move into love. It's like, you know, this whole thing about how do you, you know, it's with all of your being not just partially, and you know, all of those faults is done a Sunday, not just on Sunday, and not just, you know, kind of, again, this separation of our love God with with this part, but I won't with that part with all of your, you know, heart, mind, soul, spirit and strength, everything that makes you who you are. Because you can't, you know, according to the way that Jesus said, love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself, right? So you can't love your neighbor, if you don't have love for yourself, love your neighbor, as you have love for yourself. It starts off with love God, you know, there needs to be that, that oneness connection that gives you and fills your tank to love your neighbor. So I'm made in my head. So think, Oh, I'd love to give you a million dollars. If I don't have it in my tank. If I don't have that. There's no way I can contribute towards that need. I've got a couple of bucks in. Okay, that's all I've got. So your capacity to grow is in that relationship of love. Right? So there are so okay, that's cool. What about the thumb said, well, and this is the interesting thing that when Jesus fulfilled everything that he did, he gave us his spirit. And this is in john chapter 20, where he met with his disciples, and he said, As the Father sent me, now I sent you and with that, he breathed in and said, receive the Holy Spirit. So when we, when you were talking about oneness, Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God is within us now. And that's the thing that Jesus repaired the rupture, repair the damage, to bring the one thing that God had on his agenda, how am I going to get my spirit into you guys, and that was the gift. So here's the interesting thing, the thumb is the spirit that we need. Because under that, you then if you put your hand together, that thumb locks in with the fingers, and you get a grip on life. We need the spirit active in our life, but we also need love active in our life, with all of our being out Wow, great. That's cool. Then the third conversation that I had with him was he says, Do you know what the 10 commandments are about? And I think this is the bane of both Christians and non Christians alike. In terms of our Oh, yeah, well, okay, your lots of do's and don'ts. And so, you know, I could even almost hear the groaning and grinding, it's like, yes, it was, like, you know, it's like, yeah, it's like, okay, you totally missed the point of what it's about. So, and, and he said, Look, um, so the conversation focused on the fact that all these things in our life, like, you know, when you think about the 10 commandments, it's like, you know, don't covert, don't lie, don't deceive, and all of those kinds of things that are there, it's like, he said, he talked about that they're doorways. Once you open up those doors, there's a whole lot of mess that comes with it. So the whole idea of my experience, now where god says was this, I've opened up heaven's door, whatever you need, get it from heaven, close those doors, you know, there's no need for you to go into lying about it. Or coveting or deceiving or, you know, any of those kinds of things that you think that, oh, that's going to get me what I need, what I want, and make your case through that. That's just going to open up doors to misery and pain and all sorts of mischief in your life. Close those doors. Because heaven's door is open to you. Anything you want, it's there for you get it from the right place. And I found Wow, I thought that's that's an interesting way I've I don't think I've ever taught or preached in that way about the ten commandments, but, yes, close those doors, keep them close. They're not for you to open those just gonna mess you up

Helen  1:11:53  

and bring lots of those. What did you call them? Like paper angels? The ones that had no depth, the parchment!  Yes. Yeah, and empty, and empty, like, an empty life.

Dirk  1:12:07  

So I think that's an interesting one, because I think I'm starting to get a sense of the importance of authority that you have, and authority that the other side has, like, for instance, if you, if you say, Okay, look, I'm just going to lie my way through this, you're giving authority to that other entity to really mess with you opening up a door to things that are going to mess you up. And I think, but God has given us authority - no, slam it shut, and go that way. But here is my door is open for you. I've actually given you authority come in, you know, take what you need. It's in that oneness, it's in that relationship. It's in that repair place, not in that separation place. Call like, you know, that's where I'm at now, living life in that repair, and oneness. And, you know, seeing every day as being something where God is saysing, Look, what I've done, this is this is my day for you check it out. And we have this is not just all we aimlessly going through, we actually have control over the next step that we take the next thing that we do, how are we having a conversation, what we're going to think, etc, etc. We're not a dumb being that just is out of control. We're actually quite in control of our life here. And on the other side, which is an amazing thing, when you start to realize that even in counseling, you're not a victim, you can take control, you can come into a much better place and God is drawing you out of misery into a good place a connected place. And that's a journey. That does not happen with a flick of a switch. Although you know, and you haven't experienced could flick

Helen  1:13:57  

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think I was just chatting with someone this morning about who has this person has begun this journey in extremely difficult situation would you would see all the time in your counseling work? And I think it takes a lot of bravery. Well, I mean, it's often a drama, a terrible situation that triggers the search, or the journey. Anyway, I think this person's held a great deal of courage to hold strong to the journey during these difficult set life circumstances. Anyway, I was saying to this person. You know, I think I'm really proud of you for holding strong during this time. It's, you've you've been rebuilding this relationship with who you really are. In the most testing times, you know, you've held the courage you've held the commitment to the journey and it will, it will come good in the end. And now I can't even remember why I started telling you this? Well, look,

Dirk  1:15:03  

I'll just add a thought that I've been sharing with other people. And I saw it on a billboard once. And it just was one of those aha moments where you saw truth on a billboard. And it's like, wow, the saying was, whatever you hold on to has a hold on you. Yes. So when people are holding on to bitterness, and spite and anger, and all of that kind of stuff, it has a hold on you. And it's an interesting thing where we said, we have choices, we can actually start to major on that or let it go and hold on to that which is going to repair or get you out of that situation into something new, or whatever it is, you have the ability to hold on to something that is going to be better, and lead you to that or hold on to that which is bitter. And it'll drag you down into that. I would much rather go for the better.

Helen  1:15:59  

Yes, yes. Well, I can sense that we're about to either start a whole new conversation, or we or perhaps we should wrap up the one we've been enjoying for a little over an hour now. I just have immense appreciation for you sharing your story, Dirk. I know. I can picture listeners just soaking it up. It carries a frequency that helps us all on our journeys. And that is a beautiful gift. Thank you very, very much. And maybe we can have more conversations down the track for listeners. But otherwise, if you are in the Toowoomba area, people can come and find you here. You're starting a counseling practice.

Dirk  1:16:52  

Yes. One of the interesting things about this coming to Toowoomba was also, again, significant life change down in the Gold Coast. And like I said, you know, it doesn't mean that life, suddenly you have a near death experience becomes rose petals, you still have quite a lot of thorns under those rose petals, and life is what it is. But like I said, you don't have to get stuck there. And we had this call on our heart. And you know, you were talking about when we were offline about, you know, moments that shift you and there was one of those shifts that occurred. And we had felt this call to get into counseling come up here. And since then, coming up here and connecting with the community, where we're connected to, there was a lot of support to get that going. And then to my surprise, I mean, this is where when you flow into a calling, then suddenly all sorts of things attract to their calling, we now have a team of five other counselors, everything from neuroscience to life coaches, what a real smorgasbord of being able to meet people's needs, wherever that may be. But all professionally trained, which is great, because it's not like, you know, a counseling thing out of a weetbix box. It's like, you know, no, this is, you know, highly qualified people who are all having this passion. In terms of this, I call it a ministry of healing, you know, where you can sort of think about how do we bring some some of the good stuff back into people's lives and help them to reach that. So hopefully, by about September, we're going to go live, we are already live, but it's, I think, what they call a soft launch, you know, it's like, we have a couple of rooms in the back of where the church premises is, there's a house and we've, we're operating out of that and hopefully, we're going to have the front of the house which is going to give us a lot more rooms and abilities to do a lot of things that are bigger than just one on one and maybe even group work and other things that can happen out of that. But if that's the dream at the moment and but we're putting the business plan together, we're doing all of the admin stuff, which is not my happy place, but we're gonna have to get through that and get towards it then yeah, you probably hear it launched somewhere in the maybe the papers

Helen  1:19:19  

does it have a name yet?

Dirk  1:19:20  

At the moment, it's kinda like, you know, because it's at the location where the churche is at Living Grace, and it's a professional counseling center. So we just checked those two together, Living Grace Professional Counseling Center, who knows whether it might actually even get another different name, but at the moment, that's what we're going for. Because it's like, okay, it's at that place where Living Grace is on 90 Jellico Street and from there will operate.

Helen  1:19:46  

Fabulous, well, most of my listeners know that they can jump on my website live true to you.com for the show notes for each episode, so I will include links to the Living Grace Professional Counseling Center. I'm on that web page as well as links to your YouTube video. And the other things that we've chatted about today in a nice little discussion. So thank you again. It's been wonderful. So that's it for today's episode of the More Love Podcast. I, yep, head to live true to you.com for the show notes, and until next time, have a wonderful time. Bye