This is a great interview with practical insights into our shift towards the 5D consciousness of love energy.  Judy Carroll's purpose in this lifetime is to help us overcome the fear associated with the planetary ascension process.  Judy has dual consciousness of both the earth plane and the
expanded consciousness of the Zeta Greys who operate in our cosmos at a higher vibrational frequency.  This interview is jam packed with encouragement and understandings that help make it easier to choose love over fear and raise our level of consciousness from 3D to 5D.
Judy Carroll photo

Being in contact with 5D consciousness

This is a great interview with practical insights into our shift towards 5D consciousness of love energy. Judy Carroll's purpose in this lifetime is to help us overcome the fear associated with the planetary ascension process.  Judy has dual consciousness of both the earth plane and theexpanded consciousness of the Zeta Greys who operate in our cosmos at a higher vibrational frequency.  This interview is jam packed with encouragement and understandings that help make it easier to choose love over fear and raise our level of consciousness from 3D to 5D.


Being contacted by beings of higher dimensional consciousness

Judy explains her awareness of having dual planetary consciousness began when she was 15. First she experienced all the fear that humans 'normally' experience when they are contacted by beings of higher dimensional consciousness.  Naturally, now, she has great compassion for the fear people experience during extra terrestrial encounters and experiences.  

"I went through all the fears most people do who have in contact with the Greys in that I was terrified of puppets, I didn't like dolls because they got those sort of doll like bodies went through all that absolutely terrified every night to go to sleep on my own." Judy Carroll

One of the reasons we find contact with beings of higher Dimensional consciousness frightening is because the earth plane consciousness only accesses a very small portion, only 10% according to Judy, of all of consciousness. This also explains why, on the earth plane, we are so orientated towards a material 3D human perspective that is directly related to the experience of linear time.  

Contact with beings of the 5th dimension can also be interpreted as mystical-type experiences, which have been explored in many of previous podcast episodes. Even through the fear associated with contact experiences deep within our being we can discern whether the experience is true by whether it is guiding us towards an experience of unity, of pure positive Love energy, or not.  

Judy asked her Tall, Grey teacher, Maris this question many years ago "There's so much channel stuff being sent through, so many different opinions in books. How the heck do we work out what's right and what's wrong?" and his answer is still highly relevant today, and will always be true, "when you're reading it, see how it makes you feel if it's coming from a place of fear or a place of love."

Higher dimensional consciousness includes both a greater awareness and experience of unity, of Love and of God. Judy explains the dimensions of consciousness and the journey each individual soul takes through the dimensions well in her books, particularly The Zeta Message and Cosmic Spirituality.  

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Understanding Reincarnation lifts us towards the 5th Dimension

After some fun talking about whether or not man landed on the moon the conversation moves into the first understanding required to move from 3D consciousness to 5D consciousness. The very information that has been withheld for millenia....understanding reincarnation.  

Judy explains that the deeper meaning of the great teachings of Jesus Christ and the Magdalenes has been deliberately removed from the Bible to gain greater control over the spiritual reality experienced on earth. (This part of the conversation follows on very nicely from the previous episode with Catherine Ann Clemett)

"The teachings on reincarnation were actually removed from the Christian teachings. Jesus spoke about it, as I quote in my book and was removed at one of those meetings of Constantinople under the Emperor Constantin and the Emperor Justinian, who basically put Christianity into a belief system. Reincarnation was removed because it gave the Church and the government more power, even the idea of having priests and bishops as a go between taking the empowerment away from humans. Really. That was what they were doing."  Judy Carroll

Without understanding reincarnation we are held more firmly in a physical reality or 3D reality and our daily lives are dominated by fear more than love, often revolving around the 'demands' of linear time. Withholding the truth in this way has limited the interpretation of the bible to the lower dimension of reality (the 3rd dimension) and kept hidden the spiritual reality of our ability to access the 5th dimension.  

"...the Bible is taken as a 3D thing, and it's not. It's way beyond that. And this is another mistake. People make that God is this 3D, the bearded man up on the cloud. And this is so completely wrong."  Judy Carroll

Through understanding reincarnation we begin to discover our spiritual reality, the journey of our individual soul and typically we become increasingly sensitive to energy and the spiritual dimension. Then, suddenly our physical reality doesn't have all the answers anymore, but this can leave us yearning for the deeper meaning of life and we are more likely to experience events or mystical-type experiences that transcend time and space.  

Ascension is a choice, but as Catherine Ann Clemett said in the previous episode, everyone on earth is going through an ascension process and Judy agrees; "...some people are loving it and flowing with it, and others are fighting it tooth and nail" Judy Carroll


Keeping up with the ascension process

The answer is in using our free will to choose love over fear.  

Seems so simple.....right!!??

The truth is on the earth plane 3D dimension of reality it seems much harder than that.  The movement towards the 5th dimension involves letting go of the limitations of our 3D human consciousness, which sees only the physical reality bound by linear time.  The tell tale sign of being governed by 3D consciousness is living by fear or in fear - which is why fear is used to control the masses and suppress our awakening.  

"...fear disempowers us and love empowers us." Judy Carroll

Many are already operating in the 4th dimension level of consciousness and are working towards living life in a way that represents their values of love, compassion, service and caring of others.  Often integrating the principles of the Law of Attraction and positive thinking.  These people find themselves becoming increasingly sensitive to energy.  

Seeking to embrace our sensitivity to energy expands our consciousness and propels us toward 5th dimension consciousness.  It then becomes evident that the key is about discerning love energy and using our free will to choose love over fear.  

"Free will becomes God's will as you go up the ladder [of consciousness]"  Judy Carroll

Judy's mission is to help dissipate the fear and we hope that this conversation has helped do that for you in some way.  Feel beyond the words Judy speaks into the energy frequency that the words hold and you will be expanding your level of consciousness.  

For more on the use of fear based energies to suppress the evolution of Earth I recommend Judy's book Extraterrestrial Presence on Earth and Cosmic Spirituality.  We also speak about Judy's other book An Interview with an Alien during this interview.    



[00:00:00.550] - Helen Reynolds

Welcome back to another episode of The More Love Podcast. This is one of my favourite things to do because I get to have these most amazing conversations that I can share with you. And today we are talking with Judy Carroll.  Now.

[00:00:15.910] - Helen Reynolds

She has so many interesting stories and such a wealth of wisdom to share with us that it's going to be good. Judy is based in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia, and has written several books Zeta By Day, No! Human By Day, Zeta By Night and what was the first one Judy?

[00:00:40.210] - Judy Carroll

The Zeta Message.

[00:00:44.710] - Helen Reynolds

Sorry I forgot. So that was the first two books that I read of yours. And then I came to Brisbane all those years ago to meet you, and now we're reconnecting again. So thank you so much for being on the More Love Podcast.

[00:00:56.830] - Judy Carroll

Oh, Helen, it's my pleasure to talk to you. Lovely to talk to a fellow Aussie.  [00:01:04.330] - Helen ReynoldsYeah.  I know your work circulates well in the US.

[00:01:07.030] - Judy Carroll


[00:01:09.130] - Helen Reynolds

But, not as extensively here in Australia, so I can highly recommend your books and the subsequent books that you've written are available in ebook format. And I just have found your books to be so accessible. The language is so easy to understand. The power of the message is still in there. They're still an incredible awakening tool, but they're so down to Earth and so easy to understand. And the analogies are just. Your last book contained an analogy of a football team and a football coach. It couldn't have been better.  It was so simple. It was so powerful and so accessible. So if anyone is looking for a book to support them in their spiritual journey, yours are fantastic.

[00:01:52.570] - Judy Carroll

Thank you for that, Helen.

[00:01:54.610] - Helen Reynolds

That's just my experience. So that was easy. So as the title of Human By Day, Zeta By Night suggests you have a really interesting experience of life. Sort of a dual experience?

[00:02:09.130] - Judy Carroll

Yes, Helen. Yes. I actually made a prebirth choice before coming into this life to come in as a dual or blended soul. What that actually means is all of us - when we're going to be born into a physical life, we connect with a planetary culture of some sort, depending on where we're going to come in. So if we're going to have a birth on planet Earth, we tune into the Earth human collective consciousness to prepare ourselves. And then we tune into, like, a cultural consciousness and national consciousness, et cetera, and a family to prepare us for that subsequent birth.

[00:02:50.410] - Judy Carroll

But what people like me do we actually tune into two planetary cultures. Now I knew that I chose to be born down here in Earth human form. So of course, I linked into the Earth's human collective consciousness. But because I have come here on a mission as an ambassador for the Grey's, the Zeta people, I also linked into the Grey collective consciousness. So what this does is enables me to access consciousness from both perspectives to try and dissipate the fear. That's the main thing why I'm here to try and dissipate the fear along with other people who are doing the same work.

[00:03:27.970] - Judy Carroll

And so this enables me to live out a normal human by day life and a Zeta by nightlife in that I leave my physical human body and go up on the ship at night and work. And I have quite a bit of conscious recall from that. I can only bring back a limited amount because my Earth human brain can only access about 10% of the potential consciousness that is out there. But I still bring back enough to know what's going on so the listeners can't see you.  But I'm looking at a perfectly human, wonderfully, kind, beautiful woman. If someone was walking down the street unless they had their heart wide open and were observing the world through energy, they'd never know the difference, would they?

[00:04:12.550] - Judy Carroll

That's right. Yeah. I've actually been caught out a few times when I've been speaking at conferences with people in the audience who are clairvoyant. I've had a number of people come up and have said, I've seen your Grey face features overshadowing your human features while you were speaking. So I have had that happen. But they've got to have that ability to be able to see it.

[00:04:33.250] - Helen Reynolds

And if your mission is to help alleviate or dissipate the fear, do you think you could have come to Earth with any bigger job? I mean, that's huge!.

[00:04:48.370] - Judy Carroll

The little group that I work with are all based here in Queensland. And of course, there's some of our group over in America that I have close friends from our group here, we all say the same thing we all say, oh, we must have been crazy when we pass over this time, go back up on the ship. We're going to chain ourselves to a bulkhead or something and refuse to come back. Needless to say, we've all got a good sense of humour. This is what helps us to get through.

[00:05:18.770] - Helen Reynolds

So let's go back. I always talk about. I love to have my podcast revolve around a story in the guest's life. So how did you realise in your human form, as a child or a young adult? I'm not sure when how did you realise that you had this dual consciousness?

[00:05:38.450] - Judy Carroll

It took a long time, Helen, because I specifically chose to experience the fear through my childhood, I was aware that something was going on. I was being taken up onto the ship and I had these Beings come into my room. I went through all the fears most people do who have in contact with the Greys in that I was terrified of puppets, I didn't like dolls because they got those sort of doll like bodies went through all that absolutely terrified every night to go to sleep on my own.

[00:06:09.710] - Judy Carroll

In fact, I'm embarrassed to say, although now realise why - up until eleven years old, I would not go to sleep on my own without my mum being in the room with me. Absolutely terrified. I've experienced the fear. So when people contact me now, speaking to me as a Grey, I know where they're coming from. And so when I'm up on the ship working, I do everything I can to try and calm their fear because I've been there, done that myself.  At age 15 my awakening happened, a slight awakening happened in that I woke up one night with the sleep paralysis that people talk about.

[00:06:50.090] - Judy Carroll

And this is often a contact experience. At that time we were living in an apartment - a flat as we call them here in Australia and I was on my own out on the sleep out area. And I woke in the middle of the night unable to move a paralysed from head foot and I could see the door knob turning, of the room, tried to call out to my parents, couldn't do it, I couldn't speak, I couldn't move, absolutely terrified. And the funny thing was that even being able to see the door knob turning, there was no nightlight.

[00:07:23.750] - Judy Carroll

It was dark, it was completely dark, and yet it was like it was illuminated. So to allow me to see it anyway, I blanked out, missing time, woke up the next morning with a vague memory of it happening, didn't think any more of it. And it was after that I started becoming aware that I had a teacher working with me from what I call Upstairs, a spirit teacher. But at that stage here in Australia, we've never had the Roswell event or anything like that. So nobody knew anything about ET contact.

[00:07:54.050] - Judy Carroll

I never heard of it as a child. So I got into my mind that this person is Being who was contacting me, I knew he wasn't human, so I thought of him as being Devic of the Nature Spirit Kingdom, and this sort of fits anyway because the Greys are connected into the Nature Spirit Kingdom. Anyway, the next few years things happen one after the other. If people read my book The Zeta Message, they'll see how choreographed my lifes been. It blows me away every time I read it, I think, oh my goodness, everything was pre-planned.

[00:08:31.130] - Judy Carroll

I was guided into becoming a professional dancer at that age. Now my great grandmother was a Gypsy, a Spanish Gypsy, and she was a Flamenco dancer by profession, and she was also a psychic medium. So I mean, I very carefully chose to be born into a family with someone like that. And so I took up dancing as my career. And the Spanish dancing - it comes out of a shamanic tradition because the Spanish Gypsies, well all Gypsies have a Shemanic background to their culture. Flemenco music has the effect of, how can I say, lifting the person's energy to a higher vibrational frequency.

[00:09:15.530] - Judy Carroll

And in fact, in Spain they have a word for Duende, which translates roughly as Spirit. And they would say, they would use the expression, they'd say that as I was dancing the Duende came upon me. In other words, you connect to the Spirit. And so right from age 15, when I started taking classes and went on to become a professional dancer, I was training both left and right sides of my brain because I had to allow the trans state to come on. But I also had to worry about what I was doing with my feet, playing Castanets with my hands at the same time.

[00:09:51.890] - Judy Carroll

So huge amount of coordination there. Plus keeping what's called Compas in flamenco, which is a very strict tempo and rhythm so that I'd be able to work with the guitarist. And so my training in this started right back then, and it was also excellent training for a Grey trying to work down here in this human form, to learn how to express emotion, because that's an area where we have a little bit of trouble. So I learnt how to express emotion through doing the dancing. And then 15 years later, I had a full-on daytime encounter in which the Grey's came into the room.

[00:10:27.650] - Judy Carroll

In the middle of the afternoon. I was lying down. I saw them beside the bed. There was missing time involved. They spoke to me, told me it was time for me to get back to work and I was told that I would need to do certain things. Having been a dancer, they said, now you have to learn to meditate. So they advised me to learn Tai Chi. And this was back in the early 1980s. I'd hardly even heard of what Tai Chi was. And they said to me, it's like moving meditation to help you to transition from being a physical dancer through to the meditation.

[00:10:58.670] - Judy Carroll

They also told me that I would need to move back to town. We were living out in the country at that time, so I would need to move back to town to get back to work. And they said that I would also need to learn an actual healing modality. It took us three years to get back to town, which all happened. We had no intention of it, but everything just fell into place. And then I spent six years training in a closed meditation circle. I found Tai Chi classes just around the corner. [00:11:27.290] - Judy CarrollSo everything just fell into place.

[00:11:30.830] - Helen Reynolds

And you've married. Do you have children? Have you got a family?

[00:11:35.330] - Judy Carroll

No, I don't. That's part of my Grey persona... I just couldn't bring myself to become pregnant with something and a few other Grey people then in human form that I know here the same. I haven't had children, but there again, I know a few who have. Yeah, I think I would have had difficulty. I just felt no not to do it.

[00:11:56.930] - Helen Reynolds

Well, we've all got to follow our inner guidance.

[00:12:01.670] - Judy Carroll

Lucky, I have an understanding husband. He was happy with that.

[00:12:04.370] - Helen Reynolds

Well, he would have known too.

[00:12:07.190] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, on some level, he actually saw me in my Grey form once. He's pretty psychically sensitive, and he saw it once. So he's always been very respectful and allowed me to carry on my work, never stopped being all that upset about it or anything. He's really good.

[00:12:23.630] - Helen Reynolds

Speaking of work and human by day, Zeta by night. So this is one of my experiences, as I said to you before we record began the recording, I don't know a lot about my pre incarnations, but for quite some time I would wake up in the mornings just feeling absolutely exhausted, like I've been run over.  I would say to my husband, I just feel like I've been run over by a freight train. What happened last night?

[00:12:54.950] - Judy Carroll

Yes, I've heard that over and over again.

[00:12:58.370] - Helen Reynolds

What is it?

[00:12:59.990] - Judy Carroll

We're just working really hard upstairs. I call upstairs on the ship. We're working really hard up there, and I think we use up a lot of energy and we come back into the body in the morning and I just want to rest and relax after that. Of course, we have to get up and do our human daytime job.

[00:13:19.430] - Helen Reynolds

There you go. So in your latest book, which is called Cosmic Spirituality, I haven't forgotten the title of that one. It's one of the ones available in ebook form.

[00:13:34.670] - Judy Carroll


[00:13:36.530] - Helen Reynolds

And, it's lovely, like your other books, so straightforward and so educational, but there's a little section that really got me giggling.  "Earth plane humanity will not be let loose in the universe until positive manifestation is sought and mastered. Our universe as an expression of source or oneness or God is far too precious and sacred to be impacted upon negatively by such a young, fearful and immature planetary culture, as are the human species on Earth." I thought that just sort of summed it up quite nicely. And I'm sure you're well aware that at the moment, there's just with Covid going on, there are conspiracy theories flying left, right and centre about everything.  One of the latest ones I saw was one about NASA and the moon landing and whatever that robot is, it's meant to be on Mars.  Anyhow, I thought it would be kind of fun to ask you, did humans ever land on the moon?

[00:14:48.630] - Judy Carroll

Yes, they did.

[00:14:49.950] - Helen Reynolds


[00:14:50.790] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. I have a friend who worked very closely with Dr. Edgar Mitchell at NASA. So yeah, I've heard it basically from the horse's mouth. Yes, they did. And they also have had technology here, way ahead of what people would ever, ever dream. Technology was developed at NASA, I think 1956 to enable certain people they referred to as a Cabal to get inside psychics head and give out messages as Archangel Michael or Pleiadians or Space brothers or whatever. So, you've got to be really careful what you take in, even from Channel teachings, because there's some real good stuff out there, but there's some fake stuff, too.

[00:15:37.170] - Judy Carroll

Wow. Yeah.  

[00:15:40.050] - Helen Reynolds

That makes a lot of sense. But I am surprised that we did go to the moon.

[00:15:44.250] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, they were allowed to. Let's put it that way. They were allowed to and they saw things there which they can't or don't want to talk about. I think Neil Armstrong spoke about it on his deathbed, too. But yes, and this is the reason why some of those astronomers had a huge consciousness shift people have often mentioned. Certainly Edgar Mitchell he had a massive - he was the one who started up that organisation and Noetics Sciences I think they call it after he came back from the moon to try to expand human Earth human consciousness.

[00:16:18.390] - Helen Reynolds

I'm looking at my list of questions and thinking maybe we should duck straight to the reincarnation. That's such a big part of awakening our consciousness. Isn't it huge? Well, I guess, too. In this conversation we've started at the point where we've introduced you as a dual consciousness being to be an Earth human and to think that there's nothing more out in the Cosmos to be so narrow-minded that we're it - that's all there is.

[00:16:53.110] - Judy Carroll

That's right.

[00:16:54.430] - Helen Reynolds

It's crazy.

[00:16:56.050] - Judy Carroll

It takes us back to a couple of hundred years ago where people were put to death if they believe that Earth wasn't the whole thing and the sun revolved around the Earth and things like that, people were put to death, it's just incredible. The teachings on reincarnation were actually removed from the Christian teachings. Jesus spoke about it, as I quote in my book and was removed at one of those meetings of Constantinople under the Emperor Constantin and the Emperor Justinian, who basically put Christianity into a belief system.

[00:17:30.910] - Judy Carroll

Let's put it that way. And there was a lot of stuff cut out. There's a very wonderful gospel by St. Thomas. It was cut out. All the information in the Nag Hammadi Scrolls that was all cut out. So the Bible was really doctored, very, very much. Reincarnation, of course, was removed because it gave the Church and the government more power, even the idea of having priests and bishops as a go between taking the empowerment away from humans. Really. That was what they were doing. And the other thing is that I speak about in the third book that I wrote before these last ones extraterrestrial presence on Earth lessons in history.

[00:18:11.170] - Judy Carroll

The Bible has been very badly misinterpreted.  A fellow by the name of what's his name - Mark Siljander wrote the book called Deadly Misunderstandings, Congressman's Quest to Bridge the Muslim Christian Divide. He read the Quran in Arabic, in the Bible in Aramaic, and he found that the similarities were just incredible. And there are a lot of fighting points between the two misinterpretations.

[00:18:40.090] - Helen Reynolds

So that's one of the things my previous podcast guest Catherine Ann Clemett and her works with Claire Heartsong. Those two combined Anna, the grandmother of Jesus, and Anna, the voice of the Magdalenes. Those two books really introduced the idea of the original teachings being kept secret and trying to be protected from that adulteration of the truth. [00:19:08.290] - Judy CarrollExactly. Yeah. I'll read both those books, they're brilliant.

[00:19:12.310] - Helen Reynolds

That's 2000 years ago. And you're talking about three to 400 years after Jesus' death. The truth has been withheld for such a long time.

[00:19:24.790] - Judy Carroll

They talk about the cabal and the illuminati, but people don't realise they've been around for millennia.

[00:19:32.230] - Helen Reynolds

And what about the words energy, frequency and vibration? Were they originally in the text?

[00:19:39.250] - Judy Carroll

Look, I'm sure they would be because, I mean, they're the heart of spirituality. People get confused. They think that religion and spirituality is the same thing, but it's not can be poles apart. I mean, ideally, look, religion is supposed to be about love. So religion, it's a necessary thing. It is good. The Ten Commandments are good. People need to follow them, but it must be kept based on love. As soon as you start bringing in judgement and intolerance, fear. Fear of this God figure who's going to dial out punishments.  You've lost the plot.

[00:20:17.870] - Helen Reynolds

That was very Aussie, wasn't it? You've lost the plot. It's so true, though, because love, we can only experience it as an energy.

[00:20:30.530] - Judy Carroll

That's right. Exactly. I was raised Catholic. I was educated in the Catholic Convent, and I think again, this was planned. So I get a good basic knowledge of religion. And as a child, I never want to really be a nun. But I wanted to be a priest. I wish that I'd been born a boy so I could be a priest. And I used to plan if I been born a boy and become a priest, I plan to write a sermon on, how can you love and fear God at the same time?

[00:20:59.390] - Judy Carroll

Because they're opposites. Now I must have been about nine or ten when that was in my mind. No, you can't. What's that term? It's an oxymoron, love and fear being in the same sentence. You can't have it. And the other problem is that I find with a lot of the fundamentalist religion, they break everything down to 3D, like the Bible is taken as a 3D thing, and it's not. It's way beyond that. And this is another mistake. People make that God is this 3D, the bearded man up on the cloud.  And this is so completely wrong.

[00:21:33.890] - Helen Reynolds

I think the Church that's done the hardest work to eliminate that idea of a corporeal God is the Christian Science Church.

[00:21:42.470] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, I don't know much about them.

[00:21:44.690] - Helen Reynolds

Their teachings are I'm not a member. So I'll just say that up front. I'm not formally associated with the Church, but their work or their mission is to convey the message that God is not corporeal. God is an energy of pure love, energy and we are of God. We are made in the image and likeness of God. Therefore, we are energy and we are a pure love energy. And therefore, if we keep our attention on what we truly are, which is what they use the term spiritual sense.

[00:22:18.530] - Helen Reynolds

If we keep our attention on spiritual sense, which is pure positive love energy. Then everything else, all the material things become healed because love heals.

[00:22:28.970] - Judy Carroll

Oh, that's brilliant. Basically what I say in my Cosmic Spirituality book, isn't it brilliant? I love it.

[00:22:36.530] - Helen Reynolds

They also don't have any hierarchy in their Church.

[00:22:40.070] - Judy Carroll


[00:22:40.790] - Helen Reynolds

The Church services are run by members of the community, and then they all just rotate. They have very specific roles, but they all rotate and share the service.  So there's no clergy, no hierarchy. They're trying to really limit the chances that the mind or the ego mind will come in.

[00:23:01.910] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, I think what we need to point out here, Helen, is a Christian Science is different to Scientology. Absolutely, completely different. That might confuse some people. I've heard of Christian science, and I was fascinated with that as a child, and I just never got the chance to look into it because I was sort of in the Catholic faith, and that was it. Although I did as I got older, I started checking out a few others, but I never got around to that one. Yeah.

[00:23:31.310] - Helen Reynolds

Here's a question for you. Do we need to have a spiritual awakening to awaken to our true nature? So this question is born of my previous podcast, I've always asked the guests for their note experience. We've had all range of spiritual experiences, which is really lovely, but I suddenly realised that I might be leading my listeners down the path of thinking, you don't get to wake up unless you've had one of these dramatic experiences. So I was just hoping you might clarify for me.

[00:24:03.170] - Judy Carroll

Oh, yeah. No, that's not right, Helen. Everyone can wake up. You don't have to have a dramatic experience. A dramatic experience helps because it's very hard when you've had one to explain to someone who hasn't had one because it is so extraordinarily off the scale. But at the same time, there are plenty of people who are waking up and very open who haven't had those experiences. So I would say that like a lot of people contact me and please let me know, am I having an ET contact experience?

[00:24:34.970] - Judy Carroll

I don't remember anything, but I'd love to have them. And as I say to people, look, heaps of people are having experiences, but because we work with a 10% consciousness here, that's all our brains and process. And so we often don't bring stuff back. I don't bring a huge amount back. I've brought enough back to the other speakers dual soul, but I don't remember everything that happens up on the ship, and I realised there's no way that I could it would send you crazy if we did, because the experiences are so far out of our ability for our brain to process.

[00:25:10.550] - Judy Carroll

So now if you're even just interested in the subject, it means that you're connected to it and that you are awakening.

[00:25:18.290] - Helen Reynolds

Say that again, that's actually really powerful.

[00:25:21.230] - Judy Carroll

Just the fact that you're interested in this subject means that you are awakening or have awakened already.

[00:25:27.470] - Helen Reynolds

The other really key message that I'd love that I feel like is my work to help reassure people that if they're sensitive to energy, if they're interested in this topic, they're sensitive to energy. They're asking questions. Why can I feel stuff going on when maybe the material world is meant to be saying something different? And why can I feel energy move as different people come in and out of a room? Or why do I feel energy ebbing and flowing even during a conversation?

[00:26:01.670] - Judy Carroll

Yes, that's part of our awakening, as everyone is talking about the world moving from fourth world consciousness to fifth world consciousness. In other words, 5D. And that's what 5D consciousness is all about becoming more sensitive to energy. Many people are waking up.

[00:26:18.290] - Helen Reynolds

Catherine Anne Clemett in the previous episode, said, if you're on Earth right now, you're going through an ascension process, you sure are.

[00:26:26.330] - Judy Carroll

That's absolutely true. And some people are loving it and flowing with it, and others are fighting it tooth and nail and planetary controllers, the cabal are trying to stop it happening, but they won't be able to because it's time for it to happen.

[00:26:41.750] - Helen Reynolds

This brings us quite nicely into the next question. When everything's up for question, how do we know what the truth is? So this question is born out of that spiritual awakening process where you've discovered what's not true. You've discovered the material world isn't everything it's chalked up to be.

[00:27:02.210] - Judy Carroll


[00:27:03.590] - Helen Reynolds

So if it's not all of that, then what is it? And I found early in my spiritual journey, the what is a question? It was tricky to find my way.

[00:27:18.530] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. Everyone struggles with that. Many years ago, I actually asked the Tall, Grey teacher that I work with, Maris. I said that we're being given so much information. There's so much channel stuff being sent through, so many different opinions in books. How the heck do we work out what's right and what's wrong? I should say what's positive and what's negative. And he said, feel into the energy. He said, when you're reading it, see how it makes you feel if it's coming from a place of fear or a place of love.

[00:27:51.290] - Judy Carroll

So, for example, it's a channel teaching, and they start carrying on about all these negative Greys or negative aliens going to come here and invade the Earth or even negative Angels these days. Oh, look, whatever. That's right. That's not correct, because it's coming from fear. So that's what you do. You tune into it on a deeper level. You don't listen to the words or read the words you tune in on a deeper level. Ask yourself, Is this coming from love or is it coming from fear?

[00:28:18.110] - Judy Carroll

And that's the bottom line.

[00:28:20.570] - Helen Reynolds

That's perfect. That's exactly what I do. The other terminology I sometimes use instead of love and fear is expansion or contraction. Yes, that's lovely, because fear contracts us. It makes us scared. It's fear. But it pulls our energy in and reduces our capacity, whereas love opens us up and expands our capacity.

[00:28:43.250] - Judy Carroll

That's right. Yes. And fear disempowers us and love empowers us.

[00:28:48.290] - Helen Reynolds

Once you've grasped that fear, the difference between fear and love and that love is everything. And fear is really merely the absence of love.

[00:28:58.790] - Judy Carroll


[00:28:59.750] - Helen Reynolds

Suddenly the world becomes so simple.

[00:29:02.450] - Judy Carroll

It does, doesn't it? Yeah. And it's a really personal choice that you have to make. This is the Armageddon thing that they talk about. Again. They've made it a 3D fight between religions. It's not that it's a fight within your own heart and even the Bhagavad-gita, I think it is. It starts off with a battle scene for people who've read that book, and it explains the same thing. It's really a battle within your own heart of choosing love or fear, the God element or Satan element, whatever you want to call it.   And they're both within our own character. And it's those two sides that are beings that are fighting. And we've got to try and make a love one win! Not let fear win!.

[00:29:48.350] - Helen Reynolds

So just for the listeners in at least two of your books, you've talked about the human ladder and Earth plane being the bottom rung. It is the densest, bottom rung of the ladder. But I'm just wondering, as we move up the ladder, do we still have free will choice?

[00:30:08.690] - Judy Carroll

Absolutely. Free will is really important on all levels. What the human ladder is. We were taught this. My co author Helene Kaye and I were taught this right back in about 2001 by another tall, Grey teacher by the name of Oris. And what it is, it's expanding levels of conscious awareness - from level one down here, where we can access about 10% of our conscious awareness up to level ten, where we can access 100% of our conscious awareness. And this is the evolutionary path that all people have to follow.

[00:30:41.090] - Judy Carroll

Humans throughout Cosmos follow this path. And yes, free will must reign supreme. Free will throughout the universe is absolutely important.

[00:30:51.110] - Helen Reynolds

I often think of it as an Earth plane thing because it's so dramatic here.

[00:30:56.150] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. Now it is throughout the universe. But as you evolve up the ladder and open up more and more consciousness, you learn to make better choices because we're all creators in training. So as you laughed about before, they're going to let us lose in the Cosmos, we've got to learn to create positively rather than negatively. So those who graduated from Planet Earth, the school planet Earth, they have learned to choose love over fear. That has got to be a free will choice. And this even applies if you're in, say, a dictatorship on Earth, one of the countries where there's a dictatorship, it still has to be a personal choice love or fear.

[00:31:36.710] - Helen Reynolds

You sparked my brain in so many different directions. But first of all, the listeners who may not have read your books, the concept of the human ladder. One of the concepts of the human ladder is that as we go up the human ladder, as you just said, our consciousness expands. Earth is 10% in the next level might be 20% and so on, just for the sake of providing the concept. But as expansion expands, duality decreases.

[00:32:07.310] - Judy Carroll

Yes. Because it's a journey back to oneness. Yeah.

[00:32:10.610] - Helen Reynolds

So free will becomes perhaps less challenging. I don't have a quite the right language around that. But as duality decreases, free will becomes all the options. One or the other are less dramatic, I guess.

[00:32:24.950] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. Actually, Helen. Yeah. This sparked off something in my mind that I talk about in one of the books. Free will becomes God's will. Yes. And this is how higher cultures, like the Greys and Pleiadians and the Sirians. All the higher ones. This is how they work. And this is how the Greys. They talk about them having a hive consciousness. Yes. There was a very ancient time when they did. But the Greys who are around now, the more advanced Greys absolutely operate through God's will in that there's.

[00:32:59.450] - Judy Carroll

No, you don't need free will. I mean, you would never make the choice of fear. It's always the choice of love and caring for the whole community. And that's how they are, like a hive consciousness, because every decision or thing that they do in their life is made for everyone. It's not all aimed towards self. So. Yeah. Free will becomes God's will as you go up the ladder. Yeah.

[00:33:22.130] - Helen Reynolds

That's a really beautiful way to say it and the truth, but it just resonates, doesn't it?

[00:33:27.470] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. Thanks for reminding me.

[00:33:30.410] - Helen Reynolds

You said we're all creator beings. There were two things that I longed for absolutely longed for. And the first was to go home. I was unbelievably homesick, and I went to boarding school. So I always put down homesickness to being at boarding school. All I wanted to do was be at home on the farm. But the homesickness came with me after boarding school, so then I had to work out what the hell it really was. And the other thing was I yearned to have the ability to create, like, my power to create.  I just yearned for that because I felt so disempowered and so incapable. All those things that go with absolute disempowerment and despair that they were the two things that I yearned for.

[00:34:22.370] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. So many of the Star people who are down here go through that. I remember as a child looking up at the stars at night and tears coming into my eyes. And yes, the disempowerment. Yeah. That's pretty well proof that you are a Star person down here. I mean, beyond the fact that you're doing this work. I mean, that's proof enough. But that's more proof. Yeah. I've heard that from so many people just want to go home. Phone home. We have a standing joke amongst us - phone home like from the ET movie.  Another lovely movie, I don't know if people see as Paul was about it all quite a long time ago, about ten years ago entitled Paul Nice. The character was a Grey ET - I think he'd been one of the Roswell crash victims or something who survived. Oh, God, it's funny. It is so funny. I got it on DVD and I play it every so often.

[00:35:27.510] - Helen Reynolds

That brings us to another of your books where you clarified the messages of Airl who was meant to be a survivor of the Roswell crash. I could never work out how to pronounce the name for anyone who's come across the book. Where the nurse? The notes from the nurse were released of the communications that you've added some clarification to those messages.

[00:35:59.310] - Judy Carroll

I did years ago, and I was sort of enlightened and horrified at the same time because some of the points I put across is very good. I mean, it confirms stuff. I know, but a lot of it is just 3D nonsense and absolutely misinterpretation. So what I did, I thought, well, back then I thought I must write a commentary on this book one of these days because I've got a very close connection with that group who were involved back to that Roswell thing, it was the zeta Reticulans. So I thought, oh, I've got to write a commentary on this because people were contacting me at the time and saying, Is this book truth or fiction?

[00:36:36.210] - Judy Carroll

And I was saying, really taken as fiction. It's great Sci Fi, but alot of it's not true. But at that time I was writing my Extraterrestrial Presence on Earth book so I couldn't do another book. So once that was published, I started working on the commentary on the alien interview book and just clarifying stuff and trying to correct some of the misunderstandings and some of the wrong terms that have been used in it. That's what my book An interview with an Alien is about.

[00:37:06.150] - Helen Reynolds

Another great read for anyone who's interested.   We're down to - will Mother Earth survive Covid?

[00:37:14.850] - Judy Carroll

Oh, yes. That's a lovely question.

[00:37:17.550] - Helen Reynolds

Let's just open up the can of worms, shall we?

[00:37:20.790] - Judy Carroll

Yeah. Look, do you want to read out that question, Helen, because it is so good. Or would you like me to read it out? Because there are points that I love that you've made there. Would you like me to read it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. The question that Helen's put is : Will Mother Earth make it through Covid? This question is a dramatic way of asking about ascension of the planet, time speeding up, end of the 25,625 year cycle. There is so much fear mongering at the moment from both the controllers and their puppets, but also the conspiracy theorists and so-called truth movement, which results in fear of not having the Jab or fear of getting the Jab.

[00:38:04.470] - Judy Carroll

Either way, fear.  To me, the Jab is a material plan experience, the higher experience is staying neutral and knowing who we truly are through all of this. I love that. Thank you now, would you like me to read out the message that Maris sent through on the Corona virus? Yes.

[00:38:23.430] - Helen Reynolds

Perfect timing.

[00:38:24.870] - Judy Carroll

Okay, I'll just explain back in 2019, October of 2019, when we were up on the ship, a huge number of Humansit  suddenly started coming on board. I think it was like a pre cognition thing that we were shown and it was almost like an airport terminal at peak hour. It was just absolute chaos going on. And couple of us remembered the next morning when we woke up and we sort of exchanged emails over it and we knew that something huge was going to happen on the planet and there was going to be a lot of deaths involved and we sort of held our breath waiting for some massive earthquake or something and nothing happened.  Nothing happened. Nothing happened through the rest of 2019. Then, of course, 2020, the Covid hit and we knew that that was what it was all about. Now, a few months after that, I was giving a Reiki treatment to my friend and co worker Paula Jane, who does our podcast, the Just Love podcast with  me, and a message began formulating while I was giving her a Reiki treatment. A message began formulating in my mind about the Covid because she was asking questions about it too. Now, after the treatment, I said this to Paula and she burst out laughing because she said during the treatment she said I was putting out a message asking Maris to give me a message.

[00:39:47.370] - Judy Carroll

So that's how this message came about. She asked for it and he was coming in while I was giving her a treatment. I didn't know she's going to ask.  His message is: everything in the universe is energy, so everything that manifests in the universe, whether perceived by Earth humans as good or bad, comes originally from source. To understand the reason why seemingly negative events occur, such as this virus, there are three basic facts that need to be taken into consideration. Firstly, source or God energy is non polarised.  It is neither negative Yin nor positive Yang, but rather composed of both polarities held in a state of perfect oneness and balance. However, once energy moves out to a source and transmutes to a lower frequency, most especially on a highly polarised planet, such as Earth, separation and polarisation occur. One aspect of extreme polarisation are the illusions of good and bad. In the greater reality, these opposites do not apply. All is oneness and balance, but in 3D Earth plane manifestation, yes, such States are a subject of reality.

[00:40:58.770] - Judy Carroll

Secondly, death is an illusion. What Earth humans perceive as the greatest tragedy that can happen. The death of a human being is simply a prime opportunity for spiritual growth and evolution. The death of the physical body, which is nothing more than a container for the soul frees the spirit to enable it to focus on higher learning. It can then choose whether to reincarnate back to a physical life on Earth or elsewhere, or else to progress to a higher, less physical level of the human ladder. No death is ever accidental.

[00:41:33.510] - Judy Carroll

Every soul freely chooses if it's pre-birth state, when, where and how it will make its transition at the end of the coming life. This virus is offering an opportunity for those who aren't ready for the planetary shift to leave through the portal of death. This will then enable them to reincarnate back again if and when they're spiritually ready. The virus is part of a planetary universal plan and purpose to enable ascension. Thirdly, the planetary shift from fourth to fifth world consciousness. We have discussed this in the past and it's most important to understand that when a planet is going through an evolutionary shift as Earth is doing right now, those souls who are not ready or able to consciously make the transition in synchronisation with their home planet take the opportunity to make a timely exit through death so they can then partake a higher learning between lives.

[00:42:27.930] - Judy Carroll

They can then either reincarnate back again and step with their higher evolved planet or else to another version of the planet that is more compatible with their lower energy frequency. Remember, planets as sentient beings are multidimensional. So in the greater reality there is an Earth to suit all tastes. This is the reason why mass deaths always occur around the times of planetary shifts. Death is not an ending but rather a beginning. We're quite aware of the myriad conspiracy theories doing the rounds on Earth in connection with Covid 19 and certain negative agencies being blamed for creating and spreading the virus.

[00:43:07.170] - Judy Carroll

Earth humans are always the happiest when they have an enemy to blame for their woes. The bottom line, however, comes back to the personal Armageddon you're all facing as a result of the changing and evolving planetary energies. That is the choice between love and fear. It all comes back to this. The occurrence of Covid 19 is providing a major opportunity for spiritual growth. By providing this choice between love and fear, you cannot evolve spiritually if you are not provided with this all important choice. So in reality the negative forces down here are doing a great favour in a way, they are your Guardian Angels.

[00:43:45.390] - Judy Carroll

The choice is yours to make each and every one of you. Are you going to be pulled into the herd instinct, stampeding into fear and panic, trampling over others around you in your terror? Or are you drawn to a more evolved human energy of love and trust and knowing that no matter what, all is well and even death is not the end, but rather an opportunity for evolution to a higher state? Lastly, a point to consider if you really can't get past your fear of potential death, fear has a very detrimental effect on the human immune system.  So keeping positive is a great preventative medicine to help you stay healthy.

[00:44:22.390] - Helen Reynolds

Doesn't that sum up all the things we've talked about so amazingly, remove the idea of reincarnation and then we're scared of dying.

[00:44:33.910] - Judy Carroll


[00:44:34.990] - Helen Reynolds

And then it makes the personal Armageddon of the choice between love and fear. So much scarier. [00:44:41.890] - Judy CarrollExactly. Another little message came through the other day, too. To add to that. Also, some of the people who are passing over at this time are actually passing over into the sort of the Astral space to help others down here. So there are younger souls and older souls both going through. Yeah.

[00:45:00.190] - Helen Reynolds

I think to really understand that message, we need to really know that we're a multi dimensional being.

[00:45:07.990] - Judy Carroll

Absolutely for sure. Yeah. Really. To me, that's the key to the whole thing, understanding that we're not just a physical body. We're so much more.

[00:45:17.290] - Helen Reynolds

And then that puts the physical body into the perspective of being such a small part of our being. And that part is always going to be temporal.

[00:45:27.610] - Judy Carroll


[00:45:29.710] - Helen Reynolds

That brings up time is more relevant on Earth than it is anywhere else.

[00:45:34.750] - Judy Carroll

Exactly. It runs completely differently. I mean, that experience we had up on the ship in October of 2019, it was a pre cognitive experience of something that's happening now because it's now the people being taken up, because when you step out of 3D, you step out of time.

[00:45:57.470] - Helen Reynolds

And this brings us to another really nice message that Maris brought through in your Just Love YouTube, or that you brought through from Maris on your Just Love YouTube channel, which I will definitely put a link to in the shownotes page. But otherwise, listeners, you can definitely find Judy's channel if you just search YouTube for Judy Carroll, it pops straight up, which is great. The Jab can only affect if it does affect us a really small part of our DNA. It doesn't affect our true state of being.  We can't be damaged. Our sole essence or the true part of us can't be damaged.

[00:46:44.730] - Judy Carroll

That's right, Helen. That's absolutely right. Yes. He pointed that out because we're way bigger than 3D. It might hurt us on the 3D level. Might even damage to the 4D, but that's still nothing above that. No, just 5D we're heading into now, so yeah, no need to be scared. That's the bottom line. The whole thing is a fear thing. That's where the damage happens is with the fear, not so much anything physical that they can do to us.

[00:47:11.670] - Helen Reynolds

That reminds me of the Viktor Frankl book. He went into the prison camp that books often referred to, and one of my previous guests used him. I interviewed Keith Livingston, and he cured himself of a brain tumour three times through prayer.

[00:47:31.350] - Judy Carroll


[00:47:32.310] - Helen Reynolds

And Viktor Frankl was really big. He really drew on Viktor Frankl's story, but the reason I'm bringing it up is to stay in that attitude of love. And there's also Christian Science stories of people who've gone who've been practising Christian Science and have in the world wars, ended up in concentration camps and come out of those experiences healthier than when they went in the practise of expanding love energy through their being.

[00:48:05.190] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, because they've got to do that to keep themselves sane and going. So, yeah, there's an incentive there to expand your love energy. That's right. I can see that really going on now, because we seem to need an incentive for things. Really. I mean, any evolutionary path, incentives seems to be the catalyst, our need for change. And there's very much a need to change down here at the moment. So that makes huge sense.

[00:48:33.210] - Helen Reynolds

Or the pain, the avoidance of pain becomes the incentive.

[00:48:38.010] - Judy Carroll

Yeah, that's right. And as Maris said at the end of that message, I just read out that fear impacts upon your immune system. So keeping yourself in love is the way you stay healthy.

[00:48:52.350] - Helen Reynolds

The other challenging part of that message is that the tyrants or the ones seeking to control us are our Guardian Angels. I think that was his wording. That's actually quite difficult to wrap your mind around.

[00:49:07.410] - Judy Carroll

It's extremely hard. Yeah. Because again, there's the incentive there and the fact that we have to be offered the choice. We have to be offered the choice of fear as well as love. Because if that's not being offered, then there's no choice to make. I know it's really hard to put that into words, but, yeah, by them creating a climate of fear, they're giving that option of - okay, are we going to tune into that, or we're going to tune into the climate of love.  

[00:49:40.290] - Helen Reynolds

In many ways it's aiding the ascension, isn't it? It's bringing the necessary choice to a pointy edge.

[00:49:47.610] - Judy Carroll

Yes. Because it's giving everyone the armageddon experience we have to go through that to be able to acsend.

[00:49:54.030] - Helen Reynolds

Well, thank you so much, Judy. I really hope that this conversation has clarified things for people and helped really access or expand the understanding about love energy.

[00:50:07.830] - Judy Carroll

Yes, absolutely. The more we can get this message out, Helen, the better. That's why you do your work and I do mine just trying to get it across to people.  The time is now.

[00:50:21.690] - Helen Reynolds

So I'll put all your details of the books you've written and the Just Love YouTube channel that you and Paula do and other contacts for you and your website and whatnot in the show notes. So that's it for this episode of The More Love Podcast. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you for being here with me, Judy.

[00:50:44.610] - Judy Carroll

Thank you for having me, Helen.

[00:50:46.230] - Helen Reynolds

And until we meet again, keep choosing Love. It's the only way to go.